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We can, must, and will simulate nematode brains

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3 days agoby l1n

HN discussion of a related recent story in Wired magazine: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43490290

3 days agoby nycticorax

The author makes a good point that it's important to define what "a good simulation" means.

On one extreme, we cannot even solve the underlying physics equations for single atoms beyond hydrogen, let alone molecules, let alone complex proteins, etc. etc. all the way up to cells and neuron clusters. So that level of "good" seems enormously far off.

On the other hand, there are lots of useful approximations to be made.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, is it a duck?

If it squidges like a nematode and squirms like a nematode, is it a [simulation of a] nematode?

(if it talks like a human and makes up answers like a human, is it a human? ;)

3 days agoby interroboink

cf. the philosophical zombie:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

We really have no idea whether consciousness is something that can arise from computation, or whether it is somehow dependent on the physical substrate of the universe. Maybe we can create a virtual brain that, from the outside, is indistinguishable from a physical brain, and which will argue vociferously that it is a real person, and yet experiences no more conscious qualia than an equation written on a piece of paper.

3 days agoby jl6

I love how it is just assumed that "we can" and "we will", a good way to confidently tell you will burn human resources until you get to the point you want.

Meanwhile, the most advanced simulations are still rough approximations with little to no realism rather than "in this specific conditions and with this specific neural arrangements I made artificially, it behaves similarly to a real nematode", a good way to make a self-fulfilled prophecy.

1 day agoby nipah

Maybe the longer writeup we put out with Michael as co-author helps add some useful extra details: https://arxiv.org/abs/2308.06578

3 days agoby koerding2

I'm afraid a neuron may not be a logic gate with synapses serving as inputs/outputs and behaving exactly the same on every activation.

3 days agoby cabirum

>In 2013, neuroscientist Henry Markram secured about 1 billion euros from the European Union to "simulate the human brain" — a proposal widely deemed unrealistic even at the time. The project faced significant challenges and ultimately did not meet its ambitious yet vague goals

Ah, so this is where 45% of my salary goes.

3 days agoby afh1

Just wire neurons (human or otherwise) to computers, and see what happens.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2025-03-05/cortical-labs...

3 days agoby dj_axl

I sometimes wonder about being able to fully simulate a human brain. Maybe even scan/copy a real person’s brain.