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I wrote to the address in the GPLv2 license notice (2022)

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This is funny because I was the operations assistant (office secretary) at the time we received this letter, and I remember it because of the distinct postage.

9 months agoby davisr

At least he got a response. Meaning the address didn't change mostly.

A few years back I worked on an embedded linux project. For our first "alpha" release one of the testers read through the license agreement (as opposed to scrolling past all that legalese like most people do) and found the address to write to to get all the GPL source, he then send a letter to the address and it was returned to sender, invalid address. Somehow the lawyers found out about this and the forced us to do a full recall, sending techs to each machine to install an update (the testers installed the original software and were expected to apply updates, but we still had to send someone to install this update and track that everyone got it). Lawyers want to show good faith in courts - they consider it inevitable that someone will violate the GPL and are hoping that by showing good faith attempts to follow the letter and spirit the court won't force releasing our code when a "rouge employee" manages to violate the license.

The more important take away is if your automated test process doesn't send letters to your GPL compliance address to verify it works then you need manual testers: not only are you not testing everything, but you didn't even think of everything so you need the assurance of humans looking for something "funny".

9 months agoby bluGill

Not sure if it's being exaggerated for comedic purposes but it is interesting to me how alien the act of sending a letter by post is to the author. Granted I don't send them very often but I wouldn't think much of it if I had to. But I guess younger people and particularly those in tech may genuinely never need a reason to send a letter (or, it seems, write an address by hand).

9 months agoby NoboruWataya

> Writing the address on the envelope was awkward, as I haven’t used a pen in several years; it took a few attempts and some wasted envelopes...

Wow -- I mean, sure, I don't use a pen that often, but I'm sure I hand-write something at least once a month...

9 months agoby gwd

That reminds me on the time the FSF moved, they changed their address, and the open source product I worked on had to change their address in the license notices in our product:

https://github.com/moritz/otrs/commit/e845575e1848fd0124fb8d...

And of course, as happens more often, this issue was raised to us by Debian developers, who care a great deal about 'correctness'

9 months agoby roywashere

This was written in 2022. Do people still know how to postal-mail things? Asking as the acquisition of envelope, paper and stamps read like a new adventure for the author.

I make a practice of sending (picture) postcards to each of my descendants, when i arrive at a new place. It is a very rare occasion when I can find them, even rarer for the vendor to know what they are. Once the vendor was insisting that a flash card (smallish, lined cards for taking notes) was indeed a postcard. Sadly, I often have to buy them at the airport on arrival.

9 months agoby WaitWaitWha

Funny how the later generations of IT people often have poor penmanship.

I'm old enough to remember penmanship in school, but I was into computers from a young age so my penmanship ended up just as bad as author.

I did improve it a lot by getting a penpal through reddit. We communicated for a year and change, and during this time I went through the process of learning to be patient and write my letters slowly so they were legible.

It hurt my hand a lot to write a whole letter and I felt like I had said about as much as I have in this comment, but with time I became faster and faster.

Now probably 10 years later I still take a greater care when I write, ensuring each letter is legible.

9 months agoby INTPenis

It's kinda charming when some old-school address or phone number, that perhaps few have used in a long time, still works.

Circa 2010, I bought a vintage Concept2 Model B rowing machine, made in the 1980s, and wanted to fix it up. The paper order form I found for parts was similar to those tiny order forms at the bottom of an ad in an old comic book, where you'd handwrite your return address, and it told you the address to mail it to, with your payment.

Somehow, not only did this address still reach them, but they were set up to fulfill parts orders this way, they actually had the parts for this decades-old model, and sent me the parts (for a pittance), and they tossed in a free service manual.

I already loved the product (from using it at gyms), and now I loved the company.

I wonder what percentage of 25 year-old URLs still work.

9 months agoby neilv

> After a few weeks of waiting, I eventually received the ‘African Daisy global forever vert pair’ stamp which was round! I should have noticed that the seller sent me the item using stamps at a much lower denomination that those I had ordered. Oh well.

Wild that so many commenters don't see the satire dripping from the post. Is it just a UK thing to never take things at face value?

9 months agoby crmi

I'm interested in hearing from someone at FSF (and I used to know someone, but I don't think he's there any more), who can tell us how often this has happened. I can't imagine it's a frequent occurrence.

9 months agoby PaulRobinson

The FSF has moved address at least once, and more recently, now closed their offices entirely. I wonder if the new owners of their old addresses will or did get confused by copy-of-GPL requests.

9 months agoby pabs3

> The first thing that came to attention, the paper that the text was printed on wasn’t an A4, it was smaller and not a size I was familiar with. I measured it and found that it’s a US letter size paper at about 21.5cm x 27.9cm. I completely forgot that the US, Canada, and a few other countries don’t follow the standard international paper sizes, even though I had written about it earlier.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the US and some other countries decided to do things differently... As a European, I don't think I've ever seen something not A4 or A3/A4 in a professional context in my life, ever. Are US letter sizes what people use instead of A4 in a workplace for documents and such (seems confusing if so), and do printers sold in the US default to US letter sizes when printing? Or just happens to be something FSF only seem to be doing?

9 months agoby diggan

I once was reading a software license, and deep inside it there was a promise: who has read till this place will get a certain prise. I emailed them, they kind of confirmed that I am eligible for the prise. But it was a far away city, so I never went to claim it.

9 months agoby avodonosov

If you never pick up a pen to sign a birthday card, thank you note, or wedding album, that's a symptom you are too isolated!

9 months agoby samspot

A few countries I'll be visiting this summer still sell International Reply Coupons. It might be interesting to pick some up and see how difficult it is to exchange them. Would a PostNL point even know what to do with one?

9 months agoby terinjokes

Perhaps the FSF got confused about which license the author was referring to, or perhaps they intentionally mailed back GPL v3 — this isn't the first time they haven't been generous.

In the old days when they released GPL v3, Linus Torvalds considered it "not the same license at all". He felt betrayed because the FSF "try to sneak in these new (tivoization) rules and try to force everybody to upgrade". People could fork the Kernel and relicense the fork in a way that prevented him from merging their improvements upstream. He referred to the FSF's move as "dishonest", "sneaky" and "immoral" and decided he would "never have anything to do with the FSF again".

https://youtu.be/PaKIZ7gJlRU

9 months agoby maxloh

Different addresses are stated in different copies of the license. https://opensource.org/license/gpl-2-0 has: "59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307 USA"

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.txt has no postal address.

https://spdx.org/licenses/GPL-2.0-only.html has "51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301, USA" in red italics, and says: " Text in red is replaceable (see Matching Guidelines B.3.4). License or exception text will match to the text for the specified identifier if it includes a permitted variant of this replaceable text. The permitted variants can be found in the corresponding regular expression as shown in title text visible by hovering over the red text."

Which in turn says: "can be replaced with the pattern .{54,64}" (that is, any string between 54-64 characters long).

9 months agoby cormorant

Exploring implications of an absolute physical address. FSF basically claimed a physical "domain name" and no future organizations will be able to reside in that address. FSF can move out and ask USPS to do a 301 Moved Permanently or 308 Permanent Redirect.

9 months agoby low_tech_punk

is the owner of the address a perpetual owner of the GPL? Example: - Step 1: Create evil Corporation - Step 2: Buy that address - Step 3: Create a new GPL, still GPL but technically a new version. This can make sure the sole owner of the claimed IP (remove the FSF of course). - Step 4: Sell your updated license to anyone that'd want to go around previous GPL.

9 months agoby renecito

> Writing the address on the envelope was awkward, as I haven’t used a pen in several years;

I wonder if this was just rhetorical flourish? Are there really people who never ever use a pen?

I barely ever handwrite anything but there are still crosswords and the occasional form to fill in.

9 months agoby stevage

Looks like no other comment dwells on the fact that FSF was based in Boston.

I heard that Boston was a small hub for tech companies back in the 90s (which is is much less true these days), which might explain this.

9 months agoby rs186

It would be a perfect story for the "Dull Men Center" or alike :D

9 months agoby sinuhe69

9 months agoby AxEy

This was such a laugh!

I have to wonder if the whole exercise was a prime example of a brit "taking the piss" 8-)

> the US, Canada, and a few other countries don’t follow the standard international paper sizes, even though I had written about it earlier

I literally laughed out loud at this 8-)

And the outrageous expectation of obtaining... stamps!

It was just too funny.

For unfamiliar muricans: The success, according to british cultural standards, in the humiliation of the intended victim is increased, when the victim replies while being completely unaware that they are actually being mocked.

9 months agoby johnea

I am impressed that the FSF has kept up the same office / mailing address for 32 years at the time the article was written!

9 months agoby rietta

the building seems to have 4 floors only

https://www.google.com/maps/place/51+Franklin+St,+Boston,+MA...

9 months agoby srott

man, seeing folks still dealing with mailing letters for code gets me every time - crazy how much the basics trip people up after a few years online. you think well ever really get rid of physical addresses or is this just another forever headache?

9 months agoby gitroom

> as I haven’t used a pen in several years

Lol this is a bit ridiculous but a fun blogpost!

9 months agoby yapyap

(2022)

9 months agoby froh

Why would you do this, the text is available online!

9 months agoby pcbmaker20

It's an "I wrote a letter" blog post - which I suppose may be novel for some in today's audience.

TLDR: To save space, some old GPLv2 software didn't include the full license text, instead just a short notice with an address you can contact to obtain it. Blogger did so (glad the address still worked after 30+ years), included return postage (some nifty US stamps bought off eBay), but the reply received was version 3 instead. So they did so again, and received the correct version.

9 months agoby rkagerer

Writing the address on the envelope was awkward, as I haven’t used a pen in several years;

Really??

9 months agoby martopix

Dude wastes the FSFs time, complains about wrong license without telling them the one he wanted. Then complains again that he needs to recover from the HORROR of using the postal service that was a deliberate, POINTLESS CHOICE. Gets fame on Hacker News for it.

YAY!

9 months agoby ray023

“Writing the address on the envelope was awkward, as I haven’t used a pen in several years; it took a few attempts and some wasted envelopes”

9 months agoby supportengineer

I think these licenses are incredibly useful.

I have a really, really dumb question.

Why don't we have more licenses and contracts like this? Do we just need to set up a foundation that drafts them and makes them freely available to use?

Like, for instance, "Hi, Mark - we'd like to offer you a job here at our daycare, but first we need you to look over this contract and sign it."

This contract says, roughly, that if there's an accusation of sexual abuse against children that it will go to a mediator who has final say, and if they say it was a credible accusation, that Mark immediately loses his job, and can never work anywhere that uses this same contract, ever again. Sorry, you lost your chance to work with kids. It sucks that it might have been a false accusation, but our kids are just far too important to trust to the existing systems.

Guess what? Churches should follow a similar license. Letting priests or pastors move from town to town, abusing kids? That was completely bonkers insane. And I feel like a contract like this (and a registry, and etc.) could have helped. If people forced their daycares and churches to accept a license like this.

Another one, "Hi, Greg. We understand we'd like your endorsement from our political party? Sounds good, here's a contract for you..."

It says, among other things, that if Greg switches political parties that he must resign from office. Sorry. He's welcome to run again, but he can't stay in office on our votes.

Like, shouldn't we have more contracts like this?

9 months agoby VikingCoder