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How does the compensation work? The US prison system has a bit of a nasty reputation when it comes to exploiting prison labor, so I hope those practices aren’t carrying over into these more forward-looking types of initiative… but at the same time, surely Turso isn’t paying full SWE salary?

Maine's remote work program is an incredibly promising development to prevent recidivism. The amazing thing about it is that it gives real jobs to prisoners that they can seamlessly continue after they get out of prison. Normally when you get out, it's impossible to get a job, and the clock is ticking. This leads to desperation, which leads to bad behavior.

There is a real risk of exploitation, but if it's properly managed, remote work for prisoners is one of the most hopeful things I've heard about the prison system. It gives people purpose while there and an avenue to success once they're out.

Preston, great to see you made it this far!

We emailed, back when the post about your circumstances was shared here in Nov. 2023. I knew you'd see success.

Huge shoutout to Jessica and UL for all the work they do, and here's to a bright future ahead for you =)

The scary thing is that Maine is considered progressive for prison.

My former (brilliant) student developed schizophrenia and tried to rob a bank with a gun because the voices told him to do it. He got 10 years in jail. I think every EU country would treat him for his condition until he was safe to rejoin society. In the US, he was thrown in the slammer.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irishman-jailed-for-10-years...

what if prison ends up becoming the most distraction-free dev environment. no meetings, no slack pings, no linkedin recruiters, just you, a terminal, and 10 years of uninterrupted focus. kinda terrifying how productive that sounds

Prison is about rehabilitation, anything else is either slavery or poor politics. Very glad to see this blog post!

Great story, I wish this inspired more prisons around the world to follow suit.

For those who don't want to hit Google, the conviction was for possessing 30g of a synthetic opioid "U-47700". A normal dose is ~1mg, 10mg can be deadly (so this was 30000 trips or killing 3000).

The drug became illegal across the US on November 14, 2016.

"Police said they found the drug in Thorpe’s apartment in Manchester in December 2016" (https://apnews.com/general-news-d68dca63e95946fbb9cc82f38540...)

"Preston Thorpe, age 25, was sentenced by the Hillsborough County Superior Court (Northern District) to 15 to 30 years stand committed in the New Hampshire State Prison for possession of the controlled drug 3,4-dicholo-N-[2-(dimethylamino)-cyclohexyl]-N-methylbenzamide (also known as "U-47700") with the intent to distribute. U-47700 is a synthetic opioid that is classified as a Schedule I drug." (https://www.doj.nh.gov/news-and-media/preston-thorpe-sentenc...)

I’m so glad this is possible. Kudos to Turso for giving this man a new chance. We often criticize people for past bad behavior, but in many cases (not all, of course), they deserve a second chance in life, since most of us can change.

I'm glad to hear accounts of people in the prison system who are given the opportunity to do some good. While I am admittedly less sympathetic of dealers, the fact that the author recognises that they were in a bad situation and have been able to make positive progress since being given the opportunity to is really nice to hear

The Changelog recently did a long form interview with this guy: https://changelog.com/news/refactored-in-prison-0X1D

Very interesting.

I have some basic questions if anyone knows:

a. do all inmates get computer & internet access? (or only some, dependent upon the crime you committed)

b. do the inmates have to pay to use the computer & internet? I ask because I hear commissary is prohibitively expensive in prison.

c. how much time per week do inmate get to use the computer with internet access? (and is that time guaranteed they will get)

d. are there job boards specific to helping inmates find remote friendly jobs that are accepting of incarcerated individuals?

This needs to be a model for other states to follow. Too often, incarcerated people are left with very few real options to have a viable career beyond some sort of physical trade like construction, hospitality, or food service. And while all of those career options are great, they do not often provide a real living wage.

Hopefully, we see more of this throughout the country!

> preferring instead to spend ~15+ hours a day on projects and open source contributions.

This makes it clear it's not just that the prison provides such opportunities, but that inmates are motivated to take advantage of such. Too many fully law abiding folks spend 15+ hours of screen time just doom scrolling.

There's a real lesson here for similar community services. For folks whose upbringing maybe doesn't afford such advantages, if services can be available where students can find reprieve from harsh daily life and be (very) modestly taken care of, I can see value. At a much lesser level, I benefited enormously from school, church, and community services where I could apply myself, things my family could never afford. So, like school lunches but for practical developer education.

I fear that the distinctly American emphasis on personal independence and deprioritization of root causes has led to our persistent and failed war on drugs.

Unfortunately, many of the laws written and policies enacted presume an idealistic fantasy where humans are much more rationally acting, thoughtful, and informed than they really are.

The clearest example of this is raising statutory penalties from "many years" to "many many years" in prison. What is this supposed to achieve? Do people think that folks out there:

1. know the laws well enough to know how many years they'll get for the crime they're about to commit?

2. (and if knowledgable about penalty changes) think, "oh well I would have done X and risked many years in prison but now that it's many many years, I won't" ?

If huge prison sentences and massive resources spent on crime detection+ enforcement were the answer, America wouldn't have an illegal drug problem.

Fantastic accomplishment, Preston! Wish you good luck and the very best ahead!

Extremely hopeful that more prison systems adopt work programs like Maine's

This confirms something I’ve occasionally wondered about. As an adult with a job, a side business, a family, and an ancient house, I can still remember the incredible focus of youth. No responsibilities.

I’m not saying that I envy anyone in prison — it sucks whether you’ve “earned it” or not, but I’ve always wondered how productive a person could be while locked up.

Glad to see him making the most of the opportunity. With care and feeding, he’s got a good shot at getting out and staying out.

That is pretty awesome! I can imagine there are so many others that would benefit from programs like the one you are a part of, congratulations!

When the Government is so corrupt they can take your ability to work any kind of job away from you without even arresting you for anything, having employment from prison is a real achievement.

I've had the chance to interact with both Preston and Clyde (Preston helped Clyde get going in code as well) - Clyde actually completed like all the backend courses on boot dev and is doing great at unlocked labs.

anyhow, thanks for all you did to help Clyde Preston!!! and thanks to glauber and turso for giving Preston a chance, he's such a a cool guy with such a cool story

Locked up, locked in!

On a serious note, I think inmates should have 24/7 laptop computer access with (at least) limited sessions of internet connectivity.

Theres something nice about the idea of living in a cell and just programming.

A great read, the first part is also worth reading. I’m happy for you Preston and wishing you all the best

This reminds me of The Office (US) episode where everyone thinks prison sounds better than working at Dunder Mifflin at which point they’re introduced to “Prison Mike” to be scared straight.

and hear i am browsing hacknews at work on monday morning, wishing I was still asleep. Really gives you perspective, I hope you get out safe and sound and soon and things work out for you.

I have done 90 hours weeks when I was younger, I really hope he manages to get some exercise and down time. It is not healthy to work that much even if it escapism from a worse situation.

I heard Hans Reiser is looking for some work behind bars. Talented programmer.

In Soviet Union having prisoners do soft labor was called Sharashka. This scales and creates incentives to have more prisoners doing cheap labor.

Crazy to keep seeing PThorpe from Primes Discord on HNs front page. I hope youre doing alright in there.

This is all good and well. Would people be amenable to the same opportunity for say Hans Reiser?

It’s amazing to me that society still tolerates the torture of human beings who have engaged in activities that have no victims.

This guy did years in solitary (plainly recognized as torture by all unbiased authorities on the matter) for selling marijuana.

Speaking of incarcerated tech gurus... I've been really liking what Sam Bent [0] has been producing lately.

If you're allowed/able to watch YouTube in American prisons, I would definitely check him out!

[0] https://www.youtube.com/@Sam_Bent/videos

I definitely cried reading this. Happy tears.

Inspirational story. Thanks for sharing :)

God bless you.

I think this guy went to prison and realized how much easier it is to sit down and work instead of dealing drugs.

Prison Architect ITT

> I quickly outgrew the curriculum, preferring instead to spend ~15+ hours a day on projects and open source contributions.

TIL from 15-20yrs old I was a prisoner

But seriously, programs like these need to be made available to more people, incarcerated or not. There's millions of people in this country who have basically no access to employment. Remote work could not only be a lifeline to those communities, it's advantageous to employers and good for the economy.

> I've spent just under 10 years of my life in Prison (all for non-violent drug crimes.)

(sigh) another victim of the US obsession with sticking as many people as possible in prison. I wish the regime is overthrown somehow and he can get released.

Reading this, I think it's a crime that this guy is not out on early release. The majority of his sentence was for marijuana, which is now widely decriminalized and in some places legalized.

Somewhat relieved to see that this is the drugs prison guy, and not one of the two pedo prison guys who sometimes post on HN with their fake sob stories pretending to be hard done to while concealing their depravity.

In contrast I'm glad to see this guy has been open and honest, owning up to his mistakes and starting to turn his life around and make amends for the harm he's caused others. Well done.

Edit: Please disregard that last paragraph. Just saw the document @bjorkandkd linked.