HN Reader

I think optimising for thinness is a stupid goal. I get wanting to reduce weight, but volume and mass are two different metrics. Thicker laptops can have better cooling, bigger batteries, easier maintenance, a bloody ethernet port, and probably better keyboards.

For some reason Lenovo has made the ThinkPad keyboard worse with every new generation. They're still better than other laptop keyboards, but my goodness the margin is shrinking.

And while David Hill may claim that Lenovo TPs are as good as (or better than) IBM's, the number of repairs mine have had tell a different story. Since the x230, every single ThinkPad I've owned had to have its mainboard replaced. Sometimes even twice.

I miss the ThinkLight (and the dual-light idea he had sounds great). Useful when working in a dark environment to look at papers and whatnot, or just to provide a nice amount of ambient light to smooth out the contrast between the screen itself and your surroundings. Most modern laptops have backlit keys, but those don't help in those cases; they are pretty much only useful for people who can't touch type.

Man, i love me some Thinkpad laptops!

For me, its the overall sturdiness, the historic ability to more easily swap out components, and the keys and keyboard combo. I haven't had so many Thinkpads as others have had, but of the few i have owned, i think so far the T420 from i think circa 2011 (?) seemed to have the best balance of sturdy boxy goodness and wonderful keys and keyboard. While i would not say that i am a keyboard snob, i can certainly appreciate differences between the different types of keyboards like chiclets, or mechanical dedicated keyboards, etc. I'm sure beyond functional aspects, there is no doubt a nostalgia that i feel for these machines that is solely based on emotion...but who cares, since i always get more value than whatever i paid for them!

On another aspect to this, it feels like Framework laptops has a chance to perhaps capture at least some of the positive sentiment that folks have/had for Thinkpads. I mean, sure, the swap-ability of the components is the most obvious comparison...but, i think Framework has also fostered a following by a community, that, if they play their cards right - and produce good, solid products - can turn into a successor to Thinkpads. I mean, obviously thinkpads are still here and all...but the folks at Framework have a big chance here, and i welcome the competition (since we all win as consumer if there is good, solid choices in the marketplace). Let's hope both Thinkpads and Framework (and any other competitors) keep moving the needle forward to empower users with more options for good solid design, easy/self-repair, component swap-ability, sturdy/dependable hardware, and fair pricing!

One gripe I have with Lenovo keyboards is that the Fn key is at the left-most edge of the bottom row. Per my muscle memory, it's the Control key that ought to be there, not Fn.

Maybe I’m just sentimental, but My Thinkpad x300 was the toughest, most productive laptop that I have owned. I took that laptop deep into the Amazon where it was exposed to near 100% humidity for months. It’s plastic / polycarbonate shell stood up to a tremendous amount of abuse, and it’s keyboard was awesome. Times have changed and now I mostly use Apple products, but they are not nearly as tough, or have as nice of a keyboard as that X300.

All I need is the trackpoint, I would never consider buying a laptop without one.

> "It's very difficult to make a seven-row keyboard anymore because of the aspect ratio of the display and the whole arrangement of the pieces on the inside," he said. "It's a decision that was not made lightly, however. I still like the seven-row keyboard and, as aspect ratios change, and they continue to change, I don't know. Maybe someday somebody will be interested in it again."

The sad part is, the Framework 13 has a 3:2 display (with a stupidly large bottom bezel, too, for good reasons), but still uses a bog-standard modern laptop keyboard, including (unlike the ThinkPad) the miserable half-height arrow keys. They did bother to make a Copilot key, though. Just not a better keyboard.

I'm just gonna leave this here

https://www.tpart.net/about-x210ai/

golf tee (aka soft rim cap) trackpoint ftw

I love how he also doesn't care about the X9.

4:3 did nothing wrong.

I have never used the butterfly keyboard 700C (my first ThinkPad was the 365X) but I immediately fell in love with the trackpoint since day one. I will never go back to a mouse. Fortunately you can buy USB keyboards with trackpoints so that's what I'm using for my desktop. It's also kinda funny when other people ask me to use my computer, and then hunt around my desk for the mouse ;)

> Hill said that the X300 is the favorite ThinkPad he worked on, not only because of its thinness, but also because it proved that, under Lenovo, he could build an even better product than he had for IBM.

> "There was a giant scare that this Chinese company was going to destroy ThinkPad, and it was going to become cheerful and ruin it and all this kind of stuff," he said.

'As good' can mean different things.

My first two laptops were IBM Thinkpads. In 2000 or so, I was carrying one in my hands down some concrete stairs. I tripped, bounced the laptop down 2-3 stairs, then landed on my knee on top of it. No visible marks, and it booted right up and worked flawlessly for years afterward. This was with a platter hard drive, too. I don't remember the X300, but the current Lenovo Thinkpads don't strike me as being quite as robust as the tanks they used to make.

There is something about the classic Thinkpad design which strikes me as more than just nostalgia. More like a Jungian archetype. Honest, virtuous and sturdy. The ultimate example of form follows function. The Stroke 8 of computers. A masculine counterpart to the femininity of Apple products (nttawwi).

> There was a giant scare that this Chinese company was going to destroy ThinkPad

It's been long enough to say that Lenovo really did right by the Thinkpad name. I recently switched from an X1 Carbon to a Macbook Pro because of Windows issues, and I miss the Thinkpad is built and feels. The case isn't as sharp, I prefer the trackpoint, plastic is weirdly more durable because it can flex, and all the parts are replaceable.

I can't have a laptop without the trackpoint. But why can't my fulloption P16 gen2 have a working suspend sleep S3?

It's a furnace in my backpack.

Also why lose the RJ45?

Sadly there is no better laptop.. - ecc - trackpoint +3buttons, could be without touchpad - camera shutter privacy - smartcard reader - 2 nvme (<3 zfs mirror) - big battery

<3 NixOS

The fibrous Trackpoint is still my absolute favourite.

For folks who want more in-depth backstory, going all the way back to the beginning and the origin of the "ThinkPad" name see:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/483933.ThinkPad

I really wish that there would be a true heir to the mantle, and a return to some of the original ideas, esp. the early stylus models and variants such as the TransNote --- if Lenovo would do a version of their Yogabook 9i under the ThinkPad brand and use a Wacom EMR stylus and put a Trackpoint on the keyboard it'd be an instabuy for me --- as it is, I use a Samsung Galaxy Book 3 Pro 360 and only get a Trackpoint when using my docking setup w/

https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd026745-thinkpad...

(need to find time to buy an updated one (and a spare) w/ USB-C)

> However, Hill said, he thought about putting a butterfly keyboard on a netbook when they were a viable product category in the late aughts.

I really want to see sub-11" notebooks again. They were super cool travel laptops.

> The dual lights would have eliminated shadows and provided even better illumination, but unfortunately, this effort proved too costly to make it into the final product.

Ridiculous. Function must be allowed to win sometimes.

A general takeaway from this is that there were a number of innovations that made sense at the time, but as the landscape changed, they lost their utility. The butterfly keyboard wasn't needed once screens got larger. The switch to widescreen mean the 7th row of keys competed with the trackpad for real estate. The lid latch was no longer needed as screens got lighter. Top-of-screen keyboard lighting got replaced by backlighting.

Don't get married to once-smart ideas that no longer make sense.

Also surprised there was no mention of docking HDD heads when the in-device accelerometer (I think this even predates the Wii and iPhone) detects a drop or the keyboard that had drain holes that bypass the much more expensive motherboard, protecting it from spills.

And I'm glad there was no mention of the adaptive keyboard (touchscreen F keys) that Apple also tried and failed at making a thing.

I have always found thinkpads to be the most overrated laptops ever. I far prefer Macbooks in all aspects beit ergonomics, aesthetics or performance. I don't get the love for Thinkpads. Maybe it's just nostelgia clouding people's judgement because I just see something which is clunky, ugly, plastic, noisy with a crap screen and crap battery life. The keyboard is the only thing I like more, but the macbook keyboards are okay these days.

> When designing the 25th anniversary ThinkPad, which came out in 2017, Hill brought back the ThinkLight, but he actually wanted to have – for the first time – two LEDs instead of one. The dual lights would have eliminated shadows and provided even better illumination, but unfortunately, this effort proved too costly to make it into the final product.

Dual ThinkLights appeared on two models - W700 & W701: https://youtu.be/LSHP7VRs0bI?t=658

There was also a dual screen variant, which had a secondary screen that popped out to the right of the primary screen: https://youtu.be/mzhZH9LK1ac?t=26

The forced redesign story was the icing on the cake. You never redesign a best selling item. If you try, the changes will be made to you.

In England the nub was referred to as the nipple.

I had a series of think pads. I think the last one was a t61p running Lennox and it was truly glorious. I can't remember if it was that model or an earlier one which had a battery known as the tumor which stuck out the back. You could hibernate the laptop and swap in another battery and turn the laptop back on and keep working without rebooting.

Everything since then for me has been MacBooks or Dell laptops. Neither brings me as much joy.

I still have my 2005 ThinkPad X41 which has both a TrackPoint and a ThinkLight. The laptop has a dead battery, but works as good as new when plugged in.

I wish lenovo would make a modern 700c, nice and thin, no trackpad, 11" screen and three mouse buttons. Would be the ideal portable for me.

> However, at this point, the Soft Dome design has won out with a rather large, flat top that's filled with dots for texture and an easy grip.

I've only ever used the original eraser head and the current soft dome, and remember the original being nice because it was tall enough to tilt my finger slightly and push, while the current one is annoying to use because they're too short to do that and my fingers get almost no grip on them and slip around.

Is anyone aware of a similar type of article for the ThinkPad Power 800 series?

I know the trackpoint was popular but I could never get used to it; the pressure I felt I needed to apply eventually hurt my fingertip.

Interesting that we have tons of interviews, podcasts and books about how Apple design their hardware and software, but barely anything when it comes to other PCs or OSes. I have read some books and they are disappointing.

> After the sale, Hill got to work on building the ultimate ThinkPad, the X300. When it launched in early 2008, the X300 was one of the thinnest and lightest laptops made... It was also the first ThinkPad to ship without an IBM logo on it.

I swear that the ThinkPad z61p I got in July 2007 had Lenovo branding on it.

Definitely had fun as I was scrolling the article with a Trackpoint using the scrolling button. 100% my preferred way to laptop.

The trackpoint and the nice keys are one thing, but what I really want all laptops to have is dedicated home/end/pgup/pgdn keys and in a normal-looking layout (as in 7-row or as in a full keyboard).

I find it weird that even framework has gone with a keyboard where a bunch of keys are missing.

(Sent from my Thinkpad T410)