HN Reader

> Attaullah Baig, who served as head of security for WhatsApp from 2021 to 2025, claims that approximately 1,500 engineers had unrestricted access to user data without proper oversight, potentially violating a US government order that imposed a $5bn penalty on the company in 2020.

If it results in a new billion-dollar penalty, maybe it would've saved money to move him quietly to a cushy rest-and-vest advisory position, in which he's not allowed to see, do, or say anything.

> In his whistleblower complaint, Baig is requesting reinstatement, [...]

I don't understand the "reinstatement" part. Does he actually want to go back, and think that it wouldn't be a toxic dynamic?

(He already talked about retaliation. And then by going public the way he did, I'd think he burned that bridge, salted the earth for a mile around bridge, and then nuked the entire metro area from orbit.)

Or is "reinstatement" simply something the lawyers just have to ask for, to ostensibly make him whole, but they actually neither want nor expect that?

Given how WhatsApp is the de-facto way to communicate outside of the West and China, these security/data-handling "weaknesses" are most likely a feature, not a bug. An absolute bonanza for the certain intelligence services.

Remember, kids: End to end encryption is useless if the "ends" are fully controlled by an (untrustworthy) third party.

That's rather surprising about the accessing user data bit. When I was at Meta, the quickest way to get fired as an engineer was to access user data/accounts without permission or business reason. Everything was logged/audited down to the database level. Can't imagine that changing and the rules are taught very early on in the onboarding/bootcamp process.

If a company can become a mega company by having billions of users, small violations must be treated as larger. At some point impacting millions/hundreds of millions of human years a year by your practices rises above the 'it's a small inconvenience to a single person'.

You are costing society/humanity millions/hundred of millions of human years. That is not a 'small inconvenience' at this scale.

All Meta guys develop a conscience after leaving Meta.

> including contact information, IP addresses and profile photos “without detection or audit trail”.

As many holes as WhatsApp's "E2E" encryption has, this shows how valuable it still is. It's all metadata, not message content.

I never trusted fecebook which is why I never created an account or used any of its products (old Instagram placeholder only), except last year, I made a small startup and wanted to use Instagram to promote it. Despite using the other old account to avoid potential false flagging as spam, immediately after creating it I got banned and had to submit a personal picture holding a book or whatever to verify I am real. I did that although it's not a personal account. Regardless, a few seconds after submitting the picture and verifying my number it got permanently banned. So far this is understandable, maybe it's all an automated process which is expected. However, I wanted to get in touch with support, in any form or shape, only to find out that there's none, and apparently the only way to actually fix something within fecebook is knowing someone who knows someone who works there. LOL, really big LOL!! A company that size operating like an underground syndicate is a total joke and totally untrustworthy. Bottom line: Never trust anything from fecebook, no matter what they say, do not.

> A Meta spokesperson, Andy Stone, wrote on Threads, the company’s text-based social network: “Sadly this is a familiar playbook in which a former employee is dismissed for poor performance and then goes public with distorted claims that misrepresent the ongoing hard work of our team.”

Skeletons keep piling up while PR try to dismiss them

If you haven't already: Signal is the strongest independent e2e encrypted consumer app that is driven by a non-profit organisation using a zero knowledge approach.

Unsurprising given it’s been an open secret for over a decade that Meta employees will (if you have the right contacts or amount of money), orchestrate banning or seizing long-standing active accounts with desirable usernames and giving them to their friends or the highest bidder.

Didn't Hacker News feature an article on their home page at some point (10 years ago?) that at that time Facebook misconfigured something and users could observe their data being fed directly to some Israeli intelligence company? That was the day I deleted my FB account and never looked at anything they offer anymore.

Seems just in line with all the other Meta Scandals: from providing a platform for genocide in Myanmar, harming the psychology of 100s of millions of teenagers (Instagram) to pushing extremist and fascists content while receiving big ad cash dollars for propaganda that lifts criminals and fascist politicians into the highest offices. Meta has no red lines, as long as it lines Zuckerberg's pockets.

"He also claimed the company failed to remedy the hacking and takeover of more than 100,000 accounts each day, ignoring his pleas and proposed fixes and choosing instead to prioritize user growth."

There is no oversight of these monstrosities of any sort. I doubt anyone would have issues with the thesis that Meta would implement anything that might curb their user numbers unless it was mandated.

Why would they? They are beholden to their shareholders first. If it isn't illegal then it isn't illegal, immoral perhaps but that is not illegal, unless it is illegal.

My learned friends are going to have to really get their bowling arms warmed up for this sort of skit. For starters, you need a victim ... err complainant.

Wasn’t using Whatsapp that got a bunch of people droned by Israel? You should just assume your metadata at the very least is getting leaked to all US friendly intelligence agencies if you are using a US based service.

I’m sure WhatsApp’s recent “secure by design” media and ad blitz is totally unrelated to these accusations …

Baig v Meta Platforms, Inc.

Complaint:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.45...

> WhatsApp engineers could “move or steal user data” including contact information, IP addresses and profile photos “without detection or audit trail”.

So not messages.

Full text of the lawsuit: https://www.bloomberglaw.com/public/desktop/document/BaigvMe...

I've seen some people right here on HN say that Whatsapp was an inspired acquisition and Zuck is a great product guy, knows what to buy and who to hire

Counterpoint: he's a monopolist and scummy person (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1692122) who refuses to stop (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/09/snapchat-reporte...) from the early days onwards (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1169354)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15007454

> In his whistleblower complaint, Baig is requesting reinstatement, back pay and compensatory damages, along with potential regulatory enforcement action against the company.

If the company is so bad (it is), why does he want back?!

'Just pay me the salaries I "missed", and keep them coming.' The regulatory action is just "potential".

I have no sympathy for Meta, but this guy...

When it comes to e2e encryption it's important for the ends to be static (not web apps) and auditable (open source, reproducible builds) because the software running on the ends can trivially compromise anything going trough either of them. It can be as simple as a script being loaded from the server into a runtime such as Lua (closed source app). Or custom javascript delivered (web app).

When these conditions aren't met, any e2e encryption claim can be dismissed out of hand. This does not mean the service offers no value, it just means it cannot be trusted to keep anything confidential.

It will be so foolish of anyone to think that WhatsApp is a truly e2e encrypted messaging platform.

I hate Meta as much as the next person, but it feels like "endangering billions of users" is exagerating here. The complaint is pretty much that WhatsApp engineers can access metadata (NOT the content of the messages).

This said, WhatsApp is not open source, so it's impossible for users to verify how the encryption works, so users have to trust that it's properly end-to-end encrypted.

If you care about privacy (and you should), then you should use Signal instead of WhatsApp.

Muck Feta

What a trash company Meta has consistently been.

From enabling genocide in Myanmar, to interfering with elections, to giving user data to third parties in violation of its own daya policies, to straight up weird stuff like pirating/torrening books to train their steaming pile of garbage called llama, to having sex chatbots be weird to children.

And then there is the even weirder decisions of zuck, the biggest loser of all:

- VR didnt seem to catch on

- the metaverse is a giant smelly pile of poo and he sunk millions in it

- he is hiring AI engineers at absurd money in a rapidly cooling bubble market

- he immediately started ass kissing the orange stain that calls himself president

Is he purposefully trying to be a caricature cartoon vilain, a grotesque loser, and his company an emblem of evil? Or is it just cluelessness?

still use Facebook, Instagram and WhatsApp you sheeple

Edit: Oof good catch (bad day for Meta)

So much for that e2e encryption that HN claimed was so good and that META couldn’t possibly use what’s app messages to do advertising from.

nothing new here.