HN Reader

I'm afraid the latest spate of "recognizing the state of Palestine" is not, in fact, a sign of coming relief for the people there, but rather a spigot to relieve domestic pressure to engage in substantive actions (sanctions, pressuring the US and other suppliers of arms to engage in sanctions, let alone sending peacekeepers or no-fly zones).

Regardless of how much you're personally invested in the topic, this should break the hearts of everyone who dreamed that the international community could hold each other legally accountable. Indeed, the US would rather sanction individuals at the ICJ than acknowledge any sort of legitimacy—even as our own politicians accuse Russia of engaging in "war crimes". I have no doubt that they are, in fact, I think that the evidence is quite damning. But the double standard is striking, as is the difference between the footage visible on social media and what is acknowledged when you turn on the TV or open the paper.

Useless except if the following done on the US side:

Remove exception to AIPAC political status

Reevaluate AIPAC non profit status entirely

Replicate EO 14046 for Israel which adds the entire ruling party and head of state and spouses and military and affiliated business to the OFAC list

all of this is easy and doesn’t require Congress

but nobody is close to considering those actions with regard to Israel. Notably, other nation’s organizations do not enjoy this courtesy

(Don’t sorry guys, Hamas is already on these lists too)

It is incredibly interesting how the US (and Germany) have put so much into Israel and associated groups they really don't want it to fail (despite the Israeli gov doing their damnest to facilitate just that). In my understanding Israel, in the eyes of the US, is a convenient "wedge" in the Arab space that allows for easier power projection in the area, plus they have a healthy amount of zionists close to money and power at home. I imagine the political calculus of if and how to support it is ridiculously difficult.

I see a lot of comments here are about how other countries should react to this designation, rightfully so.

I wonder also though, how Israel will react. Is this anything new for them?

I for one will be holding my representatives responsible who continue to vote for the US to enable a genocide. The videos coming out of Gaza have turned me and many others into single issue voters.

Seeing PG slowly turn on this issue, from nothing into recognition and now into advocacy has been wild. Presumably because he has kids, and like many parents you understand with your eyes first, and then your heart.

PG wields some amount of power in SV, but YC and others are still inextricably tied to what's happening. Thiel was just in Israel with elad gil, rabois, alex karp, joe lonsdale. It's just too much to list.

I guess my point is when does recognition turn into action.

Comments on this post are disabled for new accounts, but in the era of anti-BDS regulation and other measures aimed specifically at curtailing practical freedom of speech surrounding this conflict, can we really comment freely on this without anonymity? The vast majority (38/50) of US states have passed some form of anti-BDS legislation. We can also expect corporate retaliation against employees who speak about this issue in a "wrong way".

From John Spencer, a retired United States Army officer, researcher of urban warfare, and author.

> The U.N. Genocide Report Against Israel Is an Assault on Critical Thinking

https://freebeacon.com/israel/the-u-n-genocide-report-agains...

Every time I've looked into the arguments for this being a genocide, I saw, at best, a description of urban warfare. Maybe I am wrong. If anyone is still reading this thread, could you write what you believe will happen after Israel won the war?

Seeing the number of flagged comments, and going from past discussions where any discussion seen as pushback was flagged, this discussion really doesn't belong on hacker news.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DPCVnqrjJXS/?igsh=OGFkdTJyOGpqbH... See the truth

This is an excellent, well-sourced analysis of the genocide claim.

https://freebeacon.com/israel/the-u-n-genocide-report-agains...

i'm ashamed of how long it took, i don't even know what words to use to explain that life matters, that all lives have the same value, and that death is bad

The amount of neo-antisemitism, ignorance towards history of antisemitism, Oct 7 denial, WW2 perpetrator/victim reversal, among other perception errors in this thread (and of course all online threads about this) is staggering and breathtaking.

At this point - except for this one message in this one thread on this one website - I have stopped all interaction with this topic online. I feel helpless, powerless and hope that this phase of human/news/information/power interaction is well past all of us within my lifetime.

I'm wondering how history could have been if Hitler had access to nuclear weapons / empathy given by a super power.

This is a step forward, but what's the way forward?

    Shalom, everyone. My name is Luis Guillermo Mora Jr., and I stand here today not as a politician or a performer, but as someone who’s been profoundly shaped by the Jewish people and the unbreakable spirit of Israel. I’m a trans person who’s learned to navigate a world that often feels hostile, and I’ve got no love for the federal government’s overreach. But what I do have is unwavering respect for Israel a nation that’s more than a country. It’s a living testament to resilience, a fortress built on generations of struggle, innovation, and an unyielding will to survive.

I owe so much of my own strength to Jewish mentors—people from Israel and the Jewish community who showed up when my life was falling apart. When betrayal and isolation hit me hard, they didn’t just offer words. They lived strength, compassion, and humanity in a way I’ll never forget. They taught me what it means to stand tall, to fight for who you are, no matter what the world throws at you. That’s the spirit I see in Israel every day a nation that’s faced unimaginable challenges yet remains a beacon of hope, ingenuity, and moral clarity.

To me, Israel isn’t just America’s ally. it’s a partner in something deeper. Our shared values, rooted in freedom, faith, and the drive to protect what matters most, are the bedrock of why this alliance works. Those Judeo-Christian principles? They’re the engine of our way of life, the reason we can stand for something bigger than ourselves. If I ever heard Israel was drifting toward alliances that compromise those values—like cozying up to China—it’d break my heart. Because losing that bond wouldn’t just be a geopolitical loss; it’d be a loss for humanity itself.

I look at Israel and see the ultimate survivors people who don’t just endure but thrive, who protect a legacy that’s vital to the world. You, as Israeli Americans, carry that legacy here, bridging two nations I love deeply. I’m not here to make promises I can’t keep or to tell you what you already know. I’m here to say I see you, I honor you, and I’ll always stand with you. God bless Israel, God bless America, and God bless the unbreakable bond between us.

Thank you.

Instagram.com/ninainnu

Wonder why this made the frontpage when other political articles die.

Has the rules around political non technical articles changed? Can we get an Epstein thread for the frontpage sometime this week?

Unfortunately, Trump’s support for Israel is still “unwavering “. So we’ll continue to aid and abet arguably the most horrific human atrocity outside Africa (Rwanda, Sudan etc) in very long time. You might have to go back to Pol Pot; even the suppression of the Rohingya by Myanmar isn’t at the scale of the complete destruction of Gaza by Israel.

What, they thought it might've actually been Egypt before this whole time?

UN Watch Rebuttal: Legal Analysis of Pillay Commission’s September 2025 Report to Human Rights Council

"This rebuttal examines the central defects of the UN report (the “Report”) issued by the Commission of Inquiry (the “Commission”). It shows why the evidence presented cannot sustain a finding of genocide under international law. A summary of its main deficiencies are as follows:

1. Failure to prove dolus specialis: The specific intent to destroy a protected group is the central and extremely high bar in any genocide case. The Commission’s claim of genocidal intent fails on this threshold alone, relying on tortured parsing of statements, selective quotations, and conjecture rather than unambiguous evidence.

2. Erasure of Hamas as a belligerent: The report never acknowledges that the IDF is engaged in combat with an estimated 30,000-strong Hamas force in Gaza as well as thousands of fighters from other militant groups. A reader would come away believing the war has the IDF deployed against only women and children, with Hamas erased from the narrative. The Commission makes no attempt to analyze the war itself, because in its alternative version of reality, there is none.

3. Silence on Hamas’s military infrastructure: There is no mention of Hamas’s 17-year military buildup in Gaza, including its vast tunnel network, booby-trapped buildings, and massive arms buildup. By ignoring this reality, the report strips the conflict of its military context and recasts lawful military targets as evidence of genocide.

4. Erasure of Hamas’s use of civilian infrastructure: The Commission ignores Hamas’s openly acknowledged human shield strategy,[2] including its use of mosques, schools, residential buildings, and hospitals to conceal tunnels and weapons. Instead, damage to these sites is consistently portrayed as deliberate targeting of civilians by Israel.

5. No recognition of the hostage crisis: The report omits the fact that Hamas took Israeli hostages and continues to hold them, starve them,[3] and rape them.[4] This omission is consistent with the broader erasure of Hamas as an active actor in Gaza, removing essential context from the Commission’s narrative.

6. Reliance on Hamas-supplied fatality data: Despite Hamas’s long record of exaggerating civilian deaths and its status as a US and EU-designated terrorist organization, its figures are treated as fact while IDF data on combatants killed is ignored.

7. Civilian deaths distorted as evidence of genocide: The report presents civilian casualties as prima facie proof of genocidal intent rather than as tragic and unavoidable consequences of urban warfare, exacerbated by Hamas’s human shield strategy. The Report cites numerous incidents where civilians were killed as intentional and targeted acts by Israel without evidence.

8. Normal wartime consequences treated as crimes: Regular and expected wartime impacts on civilians, such as mental health impacts, difficulty accessing medical care and displacement, are depicted as evidence of genocide rather than inevitable outcomes of urban conflict.

9. Urban devastation portrayed as extermination: Large-scale damage is cited as proof of genocide, ignoring that urban combat inherently produces extensive destruction, particularly when military forces are embedded within civilian areas.

The Commission also ignores the obvious: the suffering of Gazans could be significantly reduced or even ended if Hamas released all hostages and relinquished control of Gaza. The idea that the population experiencing the claimed genocide has the power to stop it but refuses to is unprecedented in the history of actual genocides and exposes a deliberate blind spot in the Report. This omission mirrors the Commission’s broader erasure of Hamas as an active party in the conflict, a group with agency and responsibility, leaving readers with the false impression that all suffering in Gaza is solely Israel’s responsibility."

https://unwatch.org/un-watch-rebuttal-legal-analysis-of-pill...

The trouble is, what is the right medium or long term solution. If Israel militarily fails as a state, which seems to me to be an implicit aim of a significant number of anti-Israel folks, the results will make the current Gaza conflict look like a joke.

What do they conclude about Russia?

For some reason, I don't see this news mentioned on any mainstream media across the political spectrum (Al Jazeera --> Guardian --> BBC --> CNN / NYT / NPR --> Fox News).

Could be that I just missed it, but seems odd.

What charity can one donate to? I just can't stand just doing nothing anymore.

Which other country can attack 6 countries in 72 hours and get away with it[1]?

I very rarely expose myself to international news. When I do, it's strikingly obvious that Americans have a president who treats every other country as if they are children to be disciplined (cue Trump "I'm disappointed in Putin/Israel/Canada..."), and Israel is the favorite child who can disobey the father and bully whoever he wants without consequence.

1: https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/world-int/27890-israel-attacks-...

Never ceases to amuse me how people tend to cling to a position unconsciosly, then try to rationalize this unconscios act.

US and west are all about some perceived genocide, while inside Israel, half want to surrender to Hamas or whoever because hostages, and the other half had had enough (of almost 80-year war) and just want to be done with it, and the third half wants to study Tora and do nothing, but be fed by the other two halves.

This is ridiculous and very bloody.

Can we please just be rational?

Y'all smart hackers be discussing it like its your life on the line here, but this conflict is of 2 people - Israel vs Palestine, and its an existential conflict for both of us.

This investigation raises concerns that are already voiced by some Israeli groups, but it fails to capture the complexities of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. For example, did you know that about 20% of Israel's population are Palestinians, with many living in huge houses, built on their ancestral land, and drive fancy cars that I could never even afford as an Israeli with an average income. (BTW I'm not Jewish but it doesn't really matter for my point.) At the same time their impoverished brothers in Gaza employ warfare methods which were/are also used by ISIS, Taliban, Syria and Iraq. Methods that exploit standard war 'etiquette'. Seemingly, International Court and the UN fail to address such manipulations, which are disregarded by most, to the point its just frustrating to witness.

Gaza has become a nest of extremism. Palestinians are far more united by hate to Israel and desire to revenge rather than nationalism. Its nothing new. Always been and most likely will stay this way. I know that the 2 state solution is the most proposed idea by foreigners for a 'middle east utopia', but this devastating pathos cannot be the foundation for a Palestinian country in a 2 state solution.

I do not know what exactly is the solution. I am most certainly sure it does not include genocide of Palestinians. But what I do know is that they must turn back on extremism, hate and terrorism in order for us to progress towards real peace, healing, and a solution that will grant both people cooperation, trade, prosperity. Judea/Samaria and Gazan Palestinians must learn from their Israeli relatives, to understand that hate, revenge and terror will only lead to more suffering. I think most of Israelis understand it this way. I also think most Israelis are frustrated because of Palestinian ideology and pathos do not shift, but actually escalate with time.

A curious person asked me: 'if they would not yield, can't you guys yield in order for this perpetual escalation to end?' I told him this is a nice idea but meanwhile Israel showed compromises for the Palestinian cause and it backfired each time, with Palestinians exploiting diplomatic attempts in order to incite hate, revenge and devastation: Gaza Disengagement (2005) - Unilateral withdrawal of all settlers and military from the Gaza Strip, dismantling 21 settlements. - Hamas claimed credit for "forcing Israel out", which boosted its popularity. - Within a year, Hamas won the Palestinian legislative elections (2006). - After the 2007 Hamas–Fatah split, Hamas took full control of Gaza, and rocket fire into southern Israel intensified.

Oslo Accords (1993–1995) - Israel recognized the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people; withdrew from parts of the West Bank and Gaza; allowed the creation of the Palestinian Authority (PA). What actually happened: Israel transferred control of cities like Jericho, Gaza, Ramallah to the PA. But the PA failed to prevent militant groups (Hamas, Islamic Jihad) from launching suicide bombings inside Israel during the 1990s.

Hebron Protocol (1997) - Israel Withdrew from 80% of Hebron, leaving only a small enclave under Israeli military presence. But violence persisted, with shootings and clashes continuing. Hebron became a flashpoint, requiring heavy ongoing Israeli military presence despite partial withdrawal.

Palestinians would argue the “backfire” narrative ignores that these concessions were partial, fragmented, and often unilateral. But actually what it is - a lack of ability to impose sovereignty and excess of corruption in the case of PA. Greed for power and will to exploit any 'gesture of good will' in the case of Hamas. This is not diplomacy. This is not the foundation for the 2 state solution I wish to see someday. They must change in order for it to happen. Death and bloodshed on both sides will only continue if we head this way.

I am curious to hear your take and vision regarding the 2 state solution, and how do you think we can get there?

Both the Palestinian people and Jewish people are indigenous to Israel/Palestine.

No one side has the right to commit genocide against the other. At some point, there will have to be a two state solution.

The current Israeli government is indeed genocidal. Cabinet ministers have referred to the Palestinian people as a whole (not just Hamas) as an enemy and the IDF is carrying out the genocide.

This also means that by proxy the US is funding the military of a genocidal regime.

Just as providing Hamas with weapons is a terrible idea, giving them to Israel in its current state is an equally terrible idea.

Conclusion:

" 251. The Commission’s analysis in this report relates solely to the determination of genocide under the Genocide Convention as it relates to the responsibility of the State of Israel both for the failure to prevent genocide, for committing genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza since October 2023 and for the failure to punish genocide. The Commission also notes that, while its analysis is limited to the Palestinians specifically in Gaza during the period since 7 October 2023, it nevertheless raises the serious concern that the specific intent to destroy the Palestinians as a whole has extended to the rest of the occupied Palestinian territory, that is, the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, based on Israeli authorities’ and Israeli security forces’ actions therein, and to the period before 7 October 2023. The events in Gaza since 7 October 2023 have not occurred in isolation, as the Commission has noted. They were preceded by decades of unlawful occupation and repression under an ideology requiring the removal of the Palestinian population from their lands and its replacement.

252. The Commission concludes on reasonable grounds that the Israeli authorities and Israeli security forces have committed and are continuing to commit the following actus reus of genocide against the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, namely (i) killing members of the group; (ii) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (iii) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; and (iv) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.

253. On incitement to genocide, the Commission concludes that Israeli President Isaac Herzog, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and then Defence Minister Yoav Gallant, have incited the commission of genocide and that Israeli authorities have failed to take action against them to punish this incitement. The Commission has not fully assessed statements by other Israeli political and military leaders, including Minister for National Security Itamar Ben-Gvir and Minister for Finance Bezalel Smotrich, and considers that they too should be assessed to determine whether they constitute incitement to commit genocide.

254. On the mens rea of genocide, the Commission concludes that statements made by Israeli authorities are direct evidence of genocidal intent. In addition, the Commission concludes that the pattern of conduct is circumstantial evidence of genocidal intent and that genocidal intent was the only reasonable inference that could be drawn from the totality of the evidence. Thus, the Commission concludes that the Israeli authorities and Israeli security forces have had and continue to have the genocidal intent to destroy, in whole or in part, the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.

255. The Commission concludes that the State of Israel bears responsibility for the failure to prevent genocide, the commission of genocide and the failure to punish genocide against the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip."

This is not tech related and does not belong on hacker news

Why is this posted on a tech news site?

Lol, Qatar is currently in that council- Quatar aka the muslim brotherhood aka hamas.. Hamas concludes this and tells this..

@dang isn’t this the exact kind of story HN isn’t supposed to have?

The UN’s teeth appear to be red white and blue.

May we remain condemned for our failure to stop this for all of time.

Hopefully we are at the beginning of a change, but I doubt this will come only from the UN.

The UN is the only international democratic institution that - even with its many imperfections - prevents the world to fall into complete anarchy. It's quite telling that it gets ignored since so many years by the country that elevates itself as the world defender of democracy, the US.

The UN has voted for decades for ending the embargo towards Cuba. Every year the outcome of the vote, which has always resulted in a great majority demanding the immediate end of the embargo, has been ignored by the US, resulting in millions of Cubans facing extreme economic consequences since many decades. The last time every country except Israel and US voted for ending the embargo (I might be wrong, maybe a single African state abstained).

In all of this, the only seed of joy I see, was seeing the Cubans a couple of years ago, after decades and decades of seeing their economy strangled by the most powerful country on Earth, roll out their own Covid vaccine just at the same time of those of big Pharma - a vaccine that resulted excellent, effective, and cheap. Hats off for the Cubans. Hope to see some other seed like this also in the Palestinians.

Combined with the other ongoing conflicts it really feels like we’re in a WW3 era

The term "genocide" isn't tossed around lightly in international law. The fact that the UN commission is now saying they found "fully conclusive evidence" of genocidal intent by Israel's leadership is going to put massive pressure on other states, especially those who've been backing Israel diplomatically or militarily

The Chair of this "independent" inquiry is Navi Pillay of South Africa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_International_Comm...); the nation which accused Israel of genocide and referred it to the ICJ. The outcome of this inquiry was always going to be highly partisan. The report's definition rests upon statements by key Israeli officials in determining genocidal intent. While the statements are accurate, in a democracy, individual representatives do not constitute a single will. If the standard used here were applied to other international conflicts in which civilians were killed, as long as just one governing official were to have made genocidal remarks (and they used a fairly wide range), the entire conflict could be ruled to be genocide. Thus the standard used by Pillay and co-authors is so far removed from anything applied to any other nation and conflict that I find the entire exercise farcical.

I await the ICJ ruling, as I regard that institution as reasonably impartial.

There is no discussion only mass flagging for anyone who isnt in lockstep on this. This is why politics is usually a subject to be avoided.

I am sure i will be flagged despite completely agreeing with the UN here but if any real change is to happen, minds must be changed which mass flagging does nothing to help. It only further entrenches people. But hey, at least it feels good right? Righteous and all that.

For those who disagree with the UN here, id be happy to change your mind. The us should not be involved in any of this.

It's always useful to balance these claims against their critics.

Towards that end I offer up unwatch.

https://unwatch.org/

Title: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

Reality: The report was written by a 3 person UNHRC commission, which itself is seated by Ethiopia, Congo, Sudan, and Qatar.