HN Reader

Definitely underrates the impact of annotations. I'm personally not a fan of the way annotations are used to implicitly wire together applications, but I have to admit the impact. Maybe 5/10 is fair in light of the wide range of positive and extremely negative ways annotations can be used.

So many of these features were adopted after they were proven in other languages. You would expect that since Java took such a slow and conservative approach, it would end up with extremely polished and elegant designs, but things like streams ended up inferior to previous developments instead of being the culmination. Really disappointing. Java is now a Frankenstein's monster with exactly as much beauty and charm.

I owe Java a lot. Programming clicked for me when I was taught OOP in Java, my other programming module with event-driven design in C# which I hated.

Fast forward a few years later, and I'm actually at a C# shop.

Fast forward a decade, I'm at the same shop. I adore C# and I fondly remember my foray into Java.

I left Java around the time Streams were becoming a thing. I thought it looked like a mess, and then I ran into LINQ in C# land. Swings (pun intended) and roundabouts.

I’m sure there are better ways to do streams on the JVM, scala being a great example, but however imperfect the implementation is streams are such a net positive I can’t imagine the language without them. I pine for the streams API when I write go.

Ah Java. The language I never got to love. I came of coding age during the “camps” era of object oriented stuff: Eiffel, Smalltalk, CLOS, C++, etc. Java, from 95ish to oh 98ish, was like a giant backdraft. Completely sucked the air out of the room for everything else.

Does anyone remember the full page ads in WSJ for programming language, that no on quite yet knew what it really was? So my formative impressions of Java on were emotional/irrational, enforced by comments like:

“Of Course Java will Work, there’s not a damn new thing in it” — James gosling, but I’ve always suspected this might be urban legend

“Java, all the elegance of C++ syntax with all the speed of Smalltalk” - Kent Beck or Jan Steinman

“20 years from now, we will still be talking about Java. Not because of its contributions to computer programming, but rather as a demonstration of how to market a language” — ??

I can code some in Java today (because, hey, GPT and friends!! :) ), but have elected to use Kotlin and have been moderately happy with that.

One thing that would be interesting about this list, is to break down the changes that changed/evolved the actual computation model that a programmer uses with it, vs syntactic sugar and library refinements. “Languages” with heavy footprints like this, are often just as much about their run time libraries and frameworks, as they are the actual methodology of how you compute results.

Joshua Bloch's work on Collections for Java2 was absolutely formative for me.

I was just starting real programming, I knew naming was hard so I was using thesaurus almost as extensively - if not more - than the reference manual.

But his work defined designing API for me for life. Stuff we take for granted, and we often overlook as seemingly trivial.

Let's say you have a collection type that has a method ``put``. It takes two arguments - an object you want to insert, and an index you want to put it at. Which argument should go first? Could index be optional? What value should it default to? Does the function returns anything? A boolean to indicate whether insertion was successful? Or the index at which the object was put? If latter how you indicate an error?

All of these seems seemingly trivial but he and his team worked on that library for over a year and he throughly documented their work in series of presentations.

And we can't forget about his java puzzlers, absolute gem.

It's nice to review the features, but the history of Java isn't really about features or even programmer popularity.

(1) It was the first disruptive enterprise business model. They aimed to make everyone a Java programmer with free access (to reduce the cost of labor), but then charge for enterprise (and embedded and browser) VM's and containers. They did this to undercut the well-entrenched Microsoft and IBM. (IBM followed suit immediately by dumping their high-end IDE and supporting the free Eclipse. This destroyed competition from Borland and other IDE makers tying their own libraries and programming models.)

(2) As an interpreted language, Java became viable only with good JIT's. Borland's was the first (in JDK 1.1.7), but soon Urs Holzle, a UCSB professor, created the HotSpot compiler that has seeded generations of performance gains. The VM and JIT made it possible to navigate the many generations of hardware delivering and orders-of-magnitude improvements and putting software in every product. Decoupling hardware and software reduced the vertical integration that was killing customers (which also adversely affected Sun Microsystems).

btw, Urs Holzle went on to become Google employee #8 and was responsible for Google using massively parallel off-the-shelf hardware in its data centers. He made Google dreams possible.

I think the author is sleeping on Java assertions.

I really like the feature, and it's really one of the features I feel Java got right.

The syntax is very expressive, and they can easily be made to generate meaningful exceptions when they fail.

It's also neat that it gives the language a canonical way of adding invariant checks that can be removed in production but run in tests or during testing or debugging (with -da vs -ea).

You could achieve similar things with if statements, and likely get similar performance characteristics eventually out of C2, but this way it would be harder to distinguish business logic from invariant checking. You'd also likely end up with different authors implementing their own toggles for these pseudo-assertions.

A cool thing about Doug Lea's java.util.concurrent (received a 10/10 rating here) is that its design also inspired Python's concurrent.futures package. This is explicitly acknowledged in PEP 3148[1] (under "Rationale"), a PEP that dates back to 2009.

[1]: https://peps.python.org/pep-3148/

Interesting; I actually have grown pretty fond of NIO.

I will acknowledge that the interface is a bit weird, but I feel like despite that it has consistently been a "Just Works" tool for me. I get decent performance, the API is well documented, and since so many of my coworkers have historically been bad at it and used regular Java IO, it has felt like a superpower for me since it makes it comparatively easy to write performant code.

Granted, I think a part of me is always comparing it to writing raw epoll stuff in C, so maybe it's just better in comparison :)

Autoboxing's evil twin, auto-unboxing should knock the score down a few points.

  Integer a = null;
  int b = 42;
  if (a == b) {} // throws NullPointerException

Fully agree with most votings but 3/10 text blocks?!

That has got to be one of the most useful recent features. :-)

The pleasure of just copying and paste text in plain ASCII that looks as intended rather than a huge encoded mess of "\r\n"+ concatenations.

But ok, I'm just an ASCII art fan. ^_^

Didn't Java 1.3 (Sun's JDK) introduce the JIT? I remember talking to colleagues about what a joke Java performance was (we were working in C++ then). And then with Java 1.3 that started to change.

(Today, even though I still C++, C, along with Java, I'll challenge anyone who claims that Java is slower then C++.)

I don't know what to make of this list...

Very strange reasoning and even stranger results: Streams 1/10?! Lambdas (maybe the biggest enhancement ever) a mere 4/10?!

Sorry, but this is just bogus.

I feel this is overly harsh on Collections. You have to take into account just how awful that which it replaced was.

> Java Time: Much better than what came before, but I have barely had to use much of this API at all, so I’m not in a position to really judge how good this is.

Again, it is hard to overstate just _how_ bad the previous version is.

Though honestly I still just use joda time.

Still no unsigned integer types in the standard library after 26 years?

I can’t believe lambdas got a 4/10! I’m a student so maybe my opinion will change when I work on “real” code but I really like their conciseness

I'm sorry, please don't hate me (I'm tired and don't have anything better to do) https://files.catbox.moe/ge4el3.png

I haven’t used markdown in javadoc yet but this seems like at least 3/10? I often want to put paragraphs or bulleted lists in javadoc and find myself wanting to use markdown syntax for readability in the code but need to switch to less readable html tags for tooling to render it properly.

Applets (Java 1.1 - that's where I started),

Servlets (Together with MS ASP, JSP/Servlets have fuelled the e-commerce websites)

I think Java dominated the scene mostly because of its enterprise features (Java EE) and the supporting frameworks (Spring etc) and applications (Tomcat, Websphere, Weblogic etc) and support from Open source (Apache, IBM)

-10 for modules is fair, only 4 for lambdas is not. My programming style changed after using lambdas in Java, even when using a different programming language later that doesn't have lambdas as such.

I haven't written much Java but I am learning Kotlin and I really appreciate the language and the whole JVM ecosystem. Yeah yeah, Gradle is complicated but it's waaaaay easier to figure out than my adventures with Cmake, and when I read Java code there is a certain comfort I feel that I don't get with other languages, even ones I'm experienced with like Go. Java feels a bit like a stranger I've known my whole life, same with Kotlin. Perhaps despite all its flaws, there is a certain intrinsic quality to Java that has helped make it so popular.

Which release did they add the URL class that checks for equality by connecting to the internet? 10/10

Java is great, Spring ruined the platform.

> if you wanted to store an integer in a collection, you had to manually convert to and from the primitive int type and the Integer “boxed” class

I have never worked with Java. What is this? Why would one want to have a class for an Integer?

It appears that most of the good changes are imported from C#.

so java 22, 23, 24 are all released in 2024?

the biggest things to change java have been type inference, lambdas, records, streams (functional ops on collections), and pattern matching. these are all must-have features for any modern programming language. at this point any language without these features will feel old and legacy. it’s impressive java was able to add them all on decades after release, but you do feel it sometimes

Can someone explain why developers like var?

Wow I can’t believe try with resources is so old! I’ve been working with Java for years and only learned this exists recently, I thought it must be relatively new. 14 years!

For my part, returning to Java a couple years back after 15+ years away, streams + var/val were my favorite discoveries.

java.util.Date and java.util.Calendar are the two packages I remember struggling with as a new programmer. Which I guess is solved with java.time after Java 8.