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I feel like this needs an editor to have a chance of reaching almost anyone… there are ~100 section/chapter headings that seem to have been generated through some kind of psychedelic free association, and each section itself feels like an artistic effort to mystify the reader with references, jargon, and complex diagrams that are only loosely related to the text. And all wrapped here in a scroll-hijack that makes it even harder to read.

The effect is that it's unclear at first glance what the argument even might be, or which sections might be interesting to a reader who is not planning to read it front-to-back. And since it's apparently six hundred pages in printed form, I don't know that many will read it front-to-back either.

This book lines up with a lot of what I've been thinking: the centrality of prediction, how intelligence needs distributed social structure, language as compression, why isolated systems can't crack general intelligence.

But there are real splits on substrate dependence and what actually drives the system. Can you get intelligence from pure prediction, or does it need the pressure of real consequences? And deeper: can it emerge from computational principles alone, or does it require specific environmental embeddedness?

My sense is that execution cost drives everything. You have to pay back what you spend, which forces learning and competent action. In biological or social systems you're also supporting the next generation of agents, so intelligence becomes efficient search because there's economic pressure all the way down. The social bootstrapping isn't decorative, it's structural.

I also posted yesterday a related post on HN

> What the Dumpster Teaches: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45698854

There are some Amazon reviews https://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Intelligence-Evolution-Computi...

The main thesis seems to be "the brain evolved precisely to predict the future—the “predictive brain” hypothesis."

Which I guess is ok although we can do other stuff - write stories, play the piano and so on. Also:

>What Is Intelligence? argues—quite against the grain—that certain modern AI systems do indeed have a claim to intelligence, consciousness, and free will.

> It has come as a shock to some AI researchers that a large neural net that predicts next words seems to produce a system with general intelligence

When I write prompts, I've stopped thinking of LLMs as just predicting a next word, and instead to think that they are a logical model built up by combining the logic of all the text they've seen. I think of the LLM as knowing that cats don't lay eggs, and when I ask it to finish the sentence "cats lay ..." It won't generate the word eggs even though eggs probably comes after lay frequently

Jesus. Now I'm curious to read this. But the table of contents reminds me of the opening of Charlie Kaufman's "Adaptation".

So, did anyone here actually read the book? I’m halfway through and I think there are compelling ideas around how self-replication emerges naturally from a fundamentally computational universe and how that leads to increasingly complex computation (and ultimately “intelligence”). The book definitely has Wolfram vibes but it’s thought provoking to draw a connecting line through many domains like the author does. It’s best treated as pop-sci, like most of the AI literature.

This reminds me of The Blind and The Elephant

Has there been anything written about AI "intelligence" from people well read in even the basic and foundational writings on epistemology? For example, I see a lot of people using Hume's way of thinking about how knowledge is formed without addressing Kant's fairly persuasive refutation of it in CPR and without addressing the dead end that is the resulting philosophical skepticism Hume espoused.

In this book, I see Hume cited in a misunderstanding of his thought, and Kant is only briefly mentioned for his metaphysical idealism rather than his epistemology, which is a legitimately puzzling to me. Furthermore, to refer to Kant's transcendental idealism as "solipsism" is so mistaken that it's actually shocking. Transcendental idealism has nothing whatsoever to do with "solipsism" and is really just saying that we (like LLMs!) don't truly understand objects as "things in themselves" but rather form understanding of them via perceptions of them within time and space that we schematize and categorize into rational understandings of those objects.

Regarding Hume, the author brings up his famous is/ought dichotomy and misrepresents it as Hume neatly separating statements and "preferring" descriptive ones. We're now talking more about fact-value distinction because this is not talking about moral judgments but rather descriptive vs prescriptive statements, but I'll ignore that because the two are so often combined. The author then comes to Hume's exact conclusion, but thinks he is refuting Hume when he says:

>While intuitive, the is/ought dichotomy falls apart when we realize that models are not just inert matrices of numbers or Platonic ideas floating around in a sterile universe. Models are functions computed by living beings; they arguably define living beings. As such, they are always purposive, inherent to an active observer. Observers are not disinterested parties. Every “is” has an ineradicable “oughtness” about it.

The author has also just restated a form of transcendental idealism right before dismissing Kant's (and the very rigorously articulated "more recent postmodern philosophers and critical theorists") transcendental idealism! He is able to deftly, if unconvincingly, hand wave it with:

>We can mostly agree on a shared or “objective” reality because we all live in the same universe. Within-species, our umwelten, and thus our models—especially of the more physical aspects of the world around us—are all virtually identical, statistically speaking. Merely by being alive and interacting with one another, we (mostly) agree to agree.

I think this bit of structuralism is where the actual solipsism is happening. Humanity's rational comprehension of the world is actually very contingent. An example of this is the study that were done by Alexander Luria on remote peasant cultures and their capacity for hypothetical reasoning and logic in general. They turned out to be very different from "our models" [1]. But, even closer to home, I share the same town as people who believe in reiki healing to the extent that they are willing to pay for it.

But, more to the point, he has also simply rediscovered Hume's idea, which I will quote:

>In every system of morality, which I have hitherto met with, I have always remarked, that the author proceeds for some time in the ordinary way of reasoning, and establishes the being of a God, or makes observations concerning human affairs; when of a sudden I am surprised to find, that instead of the usual copulations of propositions, is, and is not, I meet with no proposition that is not connected with an ought, or an ought not.

Emphasis mine. Hume's point was that he thought descriptive statements always carry a prescriptive one hidden in their premise, and so that, in practice, "is" statements are always just "ought" statements.

Had the author engaged more actively with Hume's writing, he would have come across Hume's fork, related to this is-ought problem, and eventually settled on (what I believe to be) a much more important epistemological problem with regards to generative AI: the possibility of synthetic a priori knowledge. Kant provided a compelling argument in favor of the possibility of synthetic a priori knowledge, but I would argue that it does not apply to machines, as machines can "know" things only by reproducing the data they are trained with and lack the various methods of apperception needed to schematize knowledge due to a variety of reasons, but "time" being the foremost. LLMs don't have a concept of "time"; every inference they make is independent, and transformers are just a great way to link them together into sequences.

I should point out that I'm not a complete AI skeptic. I think that it could be possible to have some hypothetical model that would simply use gen AI as its sensory layer and combine that with a reasoning component that makes logical inferences that more resemble the categories that Kant described being used to generate synthetic a priori knowledge. Such a machine would be capable of producing true new information rather than simply sampling an admittedly massive approximation of the joint probability of semiotics (be it tokens or images) and hoping that the approximation is well constructed enough to interpolate the right answer out. I would personally argue that the latter "knowledge", when correct, is nothing more than persuasive Gettier cases.

Overall, I'm not very impressed with the author's treatment of these thinkers. Some of the other stuff looks interesting, but I worry it's a Gell-Mann amnesia effect to be too credulous, given that I have done quite a bit of primary source study on 19th century epistemology as a basis for my other study in newer writing in that area. The author's background is in physics and engineering, so I have a slight suspicion that (since he used Hume's thought related to moral judgments rather than knowledge), these are hazily remembered subjects from a rigorous ethics course he took at Princeton, but that is purely speculative on my part. I think he has reached a bit too far here.

1: https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=481 (I am referring mostly to the section in blue here)

Not the best place to ask that :)

“This is not philosophy, this text is following in the footsteps of Alan Turing” (paraphrasing) is both incredibly humble (/s) and incredibly dismissive of philosophy as a structured form of generating knowledge.

Putting that to the side - i don’t think I’ll read this fully soon, but the core thesis of “imitation is intelligence” can be easily disproven by a process that exists in society. An actor acting to be a genius is in fact, if they are a good actor, indistinguishable in their appearance to a genius. Yet they are not, in fact, a genius, they’re just good at memorisation. This is a clear showcase that imitation of a level of intelligence does not mean that this level of intelligence is present.

We have fallen into a trap of thinking that answering in plausible sentences is what makes humans intelligent. While in reality we are observing an actor responding from an infinitely large script. What makes humans intelligent (reasoning from first principles and pattern recognition across all the sensory inputs of the world) is still very much out of grasp.

Without actually reading the book, it appears the author asserts that a large component of human intelligence can be reproduced by AI, and perhaps the chaotic interactions that underpin human intelligence, also allow nonliving systems such as AI farms to express intelligent behavior.

What he would like people to believe is that AI is real intelligence, for some value of real.

Even without AI, computers can be programmed for a purpose, and appear to exhibit intelligence. And mechanical systems, such as the governor of a lawnmower engine, seem able to seek a goal they are set for.

What AI models have in common with human and animal learning is having a history which forms the basis for a response. For humans, our sensory motor history, with its emotional associations, is an embodied context out of which creative responses derive.

There is no attempt to recreate such learning in AI. And by missing out on embodied existence, AI can hardly be claimed as being on the same order as human or animal intelligence.

To understand the origin of human intelligence, a good starting point would be, Ester Thelen's book[0], "A Dynamic Systems Approach to the Development of Cognition and Action" (also MIT Press, btw.)

According to Thelen, there is no privileged component with prior knowledge of the end state of an infant's development, no genetic program that their life is executing. Instead, there is a process of trial and error that develops the associations between senses and muscular manipulation that organize complex actions like reaching.

If anything, it is caregivers in the family system that knowledge of an end result resides: if something isn't going right with the baby, if she not able to breastfeed within a few days of birth (a learned behavior) or not able to roll over by themselves at 9 months, they will be ones to seek help.

In my opinion, it is in the caring arts, investing time in our children's development and education, that advances us as a civilization, although there is now a separate track, the advances in computers and technology, that often serves as a proxy for improving our culture and humanity, easier to measure, easier to allocate funds, than for the squishy human culture of attentive parenting, teaching and caregiving.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Approach-Development-Cognition-Cognit...

Until there is a formal and accepted definitive distinction between intelligence, comprehension, memory, and action all these opinions are just stabs in the dark. We've not defined the scene yet. We currently do not have artificial comprehension. That's what occurs sorta during training. The intelligence everyone claims to see is a pre-calculated idiot savant. If you knew it was all a pre-calculated domino cascade, would you still say it's intelligent?

Considering that even simple neural networks are universal approximators, and that most of the intelligent tasks require prediction of the next state(s) according to previous state, aren't biological or artificial brains "just" universal approximators of extremely complex function of the world?

This discussion is not complete without a mention of Marcus Hutter’s seminal book[0] “Universal Artificial Intelligence: Sequential Decisions Based On Algorithmic Probability”. It provides many of the formalisms upon which metrics of intelligence are based. The gaps in current AI tech are pretty explainable in this context.

[0] https://www.hutter1.net/ai/uaibook.htm

Sharing the same reality-narrative as me. Behaving in a way that expresses that in a way that is intelligible to me.

Intelligence is whatever we consider ourselves capable of. It turns out that computers are increasingly able to do whatever we can do. Maybe the only thing we can do is advanced pattern matching, but we didn't think of our intelligence that way before.

There's lots of opinions on what is intelligence but I notice a lot of people do not read much about it. You don't have to agree with others, but there is a reason that a precise and formal definition has been so hard to develop. People offer many simple explanations, yet if it was simple, we'd have the definition. All you end up doing is blocking yourself from learning even more.

I'll also add that a lot of people really binarize things. Although there is not a precise and formal definition, that does not mean there aren't useful ones and ones that are being refined. Progress has been made in not only the last millennia, but the last hundred years, and even the last decade. I'm not sure why so many are quick to be dismissive. The definition of life has issues and people are not so passionate about saying it is just a stab in the dark. Let your passion to criticize something be proportional to your passion to learn about that subject. Complaints are easy, but complaints aren't critiques.

That said, there's a lot of work in animal intelligence and neuroscience that sheds a lot of light on the subject. Especially in primate intelligence. There's so many mysteries here and subtle things that have surprising amounts of depth. It really is worth exploring. Frans de Waal has some fascinating books on Chimps. And hey, part of what is so interesting is that you have to take a deep look at yourself and how others view you. Take for example you reading this text. Bread it down, to atomic units. You'll probably be surprised at how complicated it is. Do you have a parallel process vocalizing my words? Do you have a parallel process spawning responses or quips? What is generating those? What are the biases? Such a simple every thing requires some pretty sophisticated software. If you really think you could write that program I think you're probably fooling yourself. But hey, maybe you're just more intelligent than me (or maybe less, since that too is another way to achieve the same outcome lol).

Is there a TL;DR version? Even the preface and introduction feel unnecessarily long.

I also think some statements are plainly incorrect. For example "humanity is already collectively superintelligent" in Chapter 10. The term superintelligence isn't one we have a shared definition for, but it's usually understood as an intelligence that surpasses all prior forms of intelligence(s), not one that merely aggregates them. In that sense, superintelligence could represent a qualitatively new level of cognition limited only by the physical computational capacity of the universe. Once you have a superintelligent entity you can imagine a future one surpassing it.

the whole book is available for free here: https://whatisintelligence.antikythera.org/

This looks like it might be an interesting read, but I just read the Chapter "Are Feelings Real?" (because it is a subject of personal interest of mine that I've studied a lot) and I found it to be very unsatisfactory, not really addressing the question at all, but sidestepping it. Which makes me wonder if the whole thing is really worth reading.

I listened to an interview with a researcher a while back who hypothesized that human reasoning probably evolved not mostly for the abstract logical reasoning we associate with intelligence, but to “give reasons” to motivate other humans or to explain our previous actions in a way that would make them seem acceptable…social utility basically. My experience with next token predicting LLMs aligns with human communication. We humans rarely complete a thought before we start speaking, so I think our brains are often just predicting the next 1-5 words that will be accepted by who we’re talking to based on previous knowledge of them and evaluation of their (often nonverbal) emotional reactions to what we’re saying. Our typical thought patterns may not be as different from LLMs’ as we think.

IIRC the researcher was Hugo Mercier, probably on Sean Carroll’s fantastic Mindscape podcast, but it might have been Lex Fridman before he strayed from science/tech.

This problem has been solved already:

Intelligence is the ability of the human body to organize its own contours in a way that corresponds to the objective contours of the world.

Evald illyenkov.

And yes, the mind is part of the body, thus thinking consists of an action of organization to the contours of the world

For years, I've taken the position that intelligence is best expressed as creativity - that is, the ability to come up with something that isn't predictable based on current data. Today's "artificial intelligence" analyzes words (tokens) based on an input (prompt) to come up with an output. It's predictable. It's fast. But, imho, it lacks creativity, and therefore lacks intelligence.

One example of this I often ponder is the boxing style of Muhammad Ali, specifically punching while moving backwards. Before Ali, no one punched while moving away from their opponent. All boxing data said this was a weak position, time for defense, not for punching (offense). Ali flipped it. He used to do miles of roadwork, throwing punches while running backwards to train himself on this style. People thought he was crazy, but it worked, and, imho, it was extremely creative (in the context of boxing), and therefore intelligent.

Did data exist that could've been analyzed (by an AI system) to come up with this boxing style? Perhaps. Kung Fu fighting styles have long known about using your opponents momentum against them. However, I think that data (Kung Fu fighting styles) would've been diluted and ignored in face of the mountains of traditional boxing style data, that all said not to punch while moving backwards.