HN Reader

I love the Netherlands and have spent a few months trying it out as a place to live. It's among my favourite places: moderate weather, friendly people, a high level of personal freedom, very high rate of English speakers, clean and modern environment, good international restaurants, lively town centres even in smaller towns, most towns have rivers / canals which make them very pleasant to walk around. I could list many other positive things.

There are some (big) downsides though. Properties are very small and very expensive compared to other European countries, so you can't expect a high standard of living in this aspect unless you have plenty of money. Taxes are also very high. In addition to the usual income taxes, you pay a wealth tax and the threshold is very low (around 55k EUR in savings/assets) so this isn't only targeting very rich people. This makes it a pretty bad place to live if you care about investing and saving for the future.

If it wasn't for these last two points I'd almost definitely move there.

As an immigrant to the US, I've often viewed the fervent wish to depart (among natural born citizens) to be the ultimate form of self-entitlement.

That you'd give up so easily when your voice, presence, and vote, matters most. It's being tested right now, and leaving is the only way to fail.

Also, why do you think any other country would -love- to have you?

Ah, yes. Of course, in the wake of the fall of the United States, everywhere else on earth will immediately flourish. Just my 2 cents, but before you leave, you might want to talk to some immigrants about what brought them to the United States in the first place.

Australian here, grew up in the great south-west, and then I lived in the USA for 15 years, decided it was bunk, switched to Europe and have now been in middle-Europe (Austria) for 18 years, with a year in the UK and a year in Japan, for context.

My quality of life has increased dramatically with every move. Europe as a place to live is just so much better than Aus->USA ever was .. better health care, better food, better people and culture.

Only thing that falters is the weather - but I tell you, there is nothing more joyous than Vienna in spring time.

Anyway, I've run the gamut on western civilization. I won't go back to the USA or Australia, no sir - and even if, only as a tourist, never to reside again. Ask me anything.

Coming from Switzerland to the US: I do not want to leave. Everything is better here… maybe not for the average person but for some individuals.

The US would be better off every American did attempt to expatriate.

In my own experience, I quickly saw and stared to miss the many strengths of our way of life.

For the curious about which country it was, see my username.

Come to the Netherlands! It’s awesome. And the visa is easy: just put 5k in a business account. Look up Dutch American friendship treaty.

Please, please, please go to anywhere EXCEPT the Netherlands. We beg you.

We have a gigantic and near unsolvable housing problem. We have thousands of refugees/immigrants with residence permits waiting for housing already (currently stuck in hotels and bungalow parks just to give them a roof over their heads), and we don't even have enough affordable houses for our own.

On behalf of everyone in the Netherlands waiting to start a family in their own affordable house, thank you.

u/andrewstetsenko has lots of great posts on this topic:

https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=relocateme.substack.c...

https://old.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/comments/urwlbr/a_guide_fo... is also helpful.

(no affiliation, I just like folks helping folks get out)

This shouldn't be flagged. This is valuable information that might save countless lives given the current trajectory.

If things deteriorate in US there will not be places to leave to pretty soon

This is the moment for all those Hollywood personalities and other liberals to learn how to leave for real, not just talk about it!

Very weird story. I can't figure out why these people want to leave, so I'm just inserting random Trump policy here, but all of the Netherlands doesn't allow illegal immigrants to stay indefinitely, allows people to pay for citizenship, and in the case of the Irish passport, they're being offered a visa based on who their parents were.

Is it tariffs? Taxes are higher there. Is it the social services, health care, foreign invasions? Half of these people were Republicans until five minutes ago, and physically participated in our most unjustifiable wars. The Netherlands I assume is like the rest of Europe and is fanatically anti-Palestinian (they love any excuse to pretend the Nazis were somebody else) and anti-Russian to the point of demanding invasion. They're upset because Trump is marginally not aggressive enough for them, and is not financing foreign interventions more. They think that the US taxpayer might only pay for 75% of it, rather than 90%.

It seems to me that, and it shouldn't be surprising considering the outlet, that it's just a bunch of wealthy people who are embarrassed to be ruled by a wrestling valet game show host. The reason why we got the clown is because these people are so awful. It's nothing but an improvement for the US to dump them on Europe. As their old asses get sick, Europe can take care of them for free while they still have their millions (from getting in early on the property market and getting jobs back when there were still pensions) invested in Vanguard funds.

And go where? Seriously I don’t know of another country that isn’t on the same authoritarian track, if not further along. If anyone has done a serious study and come up with a country that still has strong judicial independence, due process, lack of censorship and respect for private property, Id love to know

The rule applies to all immigrants: leave your rubbish at home. Don't carry it with you to your new host country. In this case, don't turn Europe into America.

Went for dinner with a Parisian friend of mine. He spent a good amount of it complaining that Paris is unrecognizable from his youth. Too many Americans, everywhere!

There are almost 200 countries on Earth, yet for these types, you could probably count the number of "acceptable" destinations for emigration on one hand. It's like Hasan Piker threatening to leave the US (the country he professed to hate "so f***king much" before electrocuting his dog/prop for daring to move), with his preferred destination being Japan--not his native Turkey, not some avowed communist country like Cuba, Venezuela, or NK, but Japan.

I sometimes wonder whether the political attitudes of some immigrants and their descendants are shaped by negative experiences or family histories from their countries of origin. This might help explain why people with backgrounds in places like South Africa, the Levant, or Eastern Europe often express strong libertarian views or criticize institutions such as the European Union, progressive politics, or European bureaucratic culture.

Many people don’t realize how much European countries have advanced. Poland and Romania, for example, have been among the major beneficiaries of EU integration. At the same time, American tech companies enjoyed relatively easy access to the European market for years, operating with limited regulation, while countries like Russia and China restricted foreign platforms early on and invested heavily in developing their own cloud and digital infrastructures.

There are much better places in the world to move to than the Netherlands

Better explain to me how to get to the USA.

Why was this flagged?

Reëlection?

Lol.

I know what the comments will be.

And the US is one of the top immigrant countries in the world. Always worth reflecting why people choose that when there is greener gras.

To learn how to leave USA one needs to pass the newyorker paywall.

Great Moments in UX

Below the teaser blurb ending "The Netherlands offers one way out," and the byline, where you'd expect the article to start, is the text "Your window is closing."

Fortunately, if you scroll further, the ominous warning turns out to only be for the paywall.

https://i.imgur.com/4WT4S8u.png

Godspeed!

Leaving now is the best way to ensure things get worse. If you've given up, your vote no longer counts and your voice no longer matters.