HN Reader

What I'd really like is a TV with DisplayPort. How is this not a thing? IIRC you cannot buy a display with DP that's larger than 45 inches, give or take - they just don't exist. I think this is really weird. Like, I'd pay an extra $100 for that port, but I'm just not allowed to have it.

As a Plex user I'd recommend a used last-gen game console as a TV source. In my AV room upstairs I've had an XBOX ONE S for a long time and more recently I got a PS4 Pro for the spare room downstairs -- both at Gamestop. I have some games for both of them but I am more likely to game on Steam, Steam Deck or mobile.

Every Android-based media player I've had tried just plain sucks, the NVIDIA Shield wasn't too bad but at some point the controller quit charging. You can still get a game console with a built-in Blu-Ray player too and it's nice to have one box that does that as well as being an overpowered for streaming.

I have a HDHomeRun hooked up to a small antenna pointed at Syracuse which does pretty well except for ABC, sometimes I think about going up on the roof and pointing the small one at Binghamton and pointing a large one at Syracuse but I am not watching as much OTA as I used to. It's nice though being able to watch OTA TV on either TV, any computer, tablets, phones, as well as the Plex Pass paying for the metadata for a really good DVR side-by-side with all my other media.

As for TVs I go to the local reuse center and get what catches my eye, my "monitor" I am using right now is a curved Samsung 55 inch, I just brought home a plasma that was $45 because I always wanted a plasma. I went through a long phase where people just kept dropping off cheap TVs at my home, some of which I really appreciated (a Vizio that was beautifully value engineered) and some of which sucked. [1]

[1] ... like back in the 1980s everybody was afraid someone would break into your home and take your TV but for me it is the other way around

A while ago I had a discussion with my friends that it is possible that in the future if 5G is sufficiently cheap, smart tvs come with a 5G SIM so they can force ads and updates even if you refuse to connect it to WiFi. I wonder if this will ever be a real thing. Either 5G, 6G or whatever comes next.

We're running a solution that isn't perfect and isn't for everyone. We have a nice Sony Android TV along with a pihole. But on the TV itself I installed f-droid and netguard. Netguard's UI sucks on a TV, but it's workable. I use it to block Internet access to everything including Google. Only a few streaming apps have internet access. There was some trial and error with a handful of dependencies too.

If I need to update an app, I temporarily allow Google services access. All the streaming apps work well, except for HBO Max which takes a few minutes to load. I suspect it has a long timeout/retry count for something I'm blocking. But once it loads, it's fine.

I also use a different and basic home launcher so we can open the apps we want immediately, without having to deal with shifting algorithm-based icons. But even if we use the Google launcher, it's mostly empty and free of ads because it can't connect. It does still capture what I recently watch though.

Overall it's a decent experience, mainly because we're not being bombarded by more ad algorithms.

About commercial displays:

> A spokesperson from Panasonic Connect North America told me that digital signage displays are made to be on for 16 to 24 hours per day and with high brightness levels to accommodate “retail and public environments.”

Some TV's err on the side of being too dim for daytime viewing in a bright room; that could only be a plus.

If it's too bright in a way that can't be turned down, you could always DIY a tinted shield to put over it for evening viewing. We used to use things like that over CRT monitors once upon a time.

> Their rugged construction and heat management systems make them ideal for demanding commercial use, but these same features can result in higher energy consumption, louder operation, and limited compatibility with home entertainment systems.

I've never heard a commercial flat screen display make a sound.

> Panasonic’s representative also pointed out that real TVs offer consumer-friendly features for watching TV, like “home-optimized picture tuning, simplified audio integration, and user-friendly menu interfaces.”

That person doesn't understand how this would be used at all. The user hooking up their streaming box to the display panel only needs the panel to do video (e.g. via HDMI cable). The display is not involved in audio at all.

I use a 1/8" plug stereo cable going straight from the Android box to a pair of RCA jacks in the speaker system. Bluetooth could be used but the wire has lower latency, 100% reliability, and not using BT means that the speakers are available for pairing if someone wants to use them from a phone. They have a remote control that can switch between two copper line inputs, and BT. The TV's volume is kept at 1%; it would make no difference if it had no speakers.

I'm a huge fan of projectors. With large TVs, you have a huge black wall when you aren't watching. With a projector you can have a pull-down screen that disappears when you don't need it. Or leave it down - it's white, and a lot less visually intrusive.

I have a 2010 Toshiba Regza TV that has never been connected to the internet and is from the time when “1080p” was the new hotness and there was a kerfuffle going on about 3D televisions. Lots of HDMI 1.2 (?) ports, and a lot of legacy connectors including a SCART for when I want to bring a tear to my eye by watching VHS tapes from my youth. Attached to a 3rd generation AppleTV that could take a round and not drop the line; a device still supported but also too ancient for the flamboyant new Liquid Glass UI. Also attached: a Raspberry Pi 4 with an external 8TB HD. Amongst other things it’s the authoritative node for my Resilio Sync mesh of media and ebooks across all my devices.

I’m a happy camper. Newer stuff would feel like a downgrade. Couldn’t care less about 4K video. Never wilfully seen sought it out, unimpressed when I see it.

I still go to the cinema regularly, alone. Something very deliberate about going to a place to pay a price to go into a specific space to do a specific thing. Pandering to second screen audiences has produced some of the most profoundly insulting media in living memory.

Am I missing something? I have a LG nano something TV that has many “smart” features, but I never let it connect to my WiFi ever. Since day 1 it has been hooked up to an AppleTV. Can I not buy any fancy smart TV in 2025 and use it as a dumb HDMI display for AppleTV?

Don't bring one into your house?

My wife and I have been wondering about exactly this question and are on the market for a new TV, and this list of options is really sad. 720p? 32"? Yeesh

The more I think about it I wonder why Chinese TVs using Android based TV don’t have Some GrapheneTV or basic trimmed down Android aimed to be “dumb”.

Unlike phones,

- if it should be air gapped then all you’d want is your HDMIs input and remote control to work.

- nice to have: ADCs/DACs for analog AV input and audio out and any antenna input if available.

- super nice to have: Bluetooth for passing audio out and maybe network (Ethernet, WiFi) stack if same.

But assuming the goal is airgapped. There are less security concerns in general, You just want the Android TV to be lightweight and fast and don’t care it’s “stuck” in specific version or use closed blobs.

I am not a HIFI/TV aficionado, but the ACR [1] thing was new to me.

I hope it is not yet important for me as I never allowed a TV access to my LAN/WLAN. But with smart devices using accessible open WLANs to transmit who knows.

[1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2409.06203 / https://arxiv.org/pdf/2409.06203

The Vizio litigation is encouraging, but hardware-level hacking is still the most reliable way forward. Been running Linux on an old TV with HDMI-in for years - basically a dumb display with full control.

For budget-conscious setup: even older plasma/LCD displays that predate the "smart" era are increasingly available secondhand. Pair with a Raspberry Pi or similar and you get a system you actually own.

How come no one has suggested tiny screens and huge Fresnel lenses like Terry Gilliam's 'Brazil'? Is this the wrong thread? If you place the apparatus in front of a window to catch the afternoon sun, it would also harness solar energy in an exciting new way!

Terrible article, but a good topic. You can get rid of homescreen ads on Google(/Android/Chromecast?) TV with a custom launcher like Projectivity: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.spocky.pro...

Are dumb TVs rare? I've never bought one, just getting TVs when other people are finished with theirs, but I'm pretty sure every one I've owned has been a dumb TV. We just connect it to the PS4 and they've all been the same.

> Any display or system you end up using needs HDCP 2.2 compliance to play 4K or HDR content via a streaming service or any other DRM-protected 4K or HDR media, like a Blu-ray disc.

This plus all the notes below about how various apps won't stream 4k in various circumstances depending on platform or web browser just lend further credence to the idea that it's best to say fuck it and deploy a jellyfin instance and sail the high seas. Or at least rip blu rays.

I mean why would I pay all these streaming services for such subpar service?

Keeping it practical and not purist, how do new smart TVs (mainly LG, it's the brand I like the most for the hardware) act with ads in a PiHole'd network? Does that block ads? Do they notice?

Are there any hobby projects to hack/replace the controller board to make a new/fancy TV into a dumb tv? Would be nice to be able to use a new OLED panel like that...

Don’t think it makes sense for Apple but would be cool to see them sell dumb TV screens to hook up to an Apple TV box.

It isn’t even the smart tv prospect that concerns me with new tvs. My current TV is technically a smart TV but you can’t tell. It has never been connected to the internet.

My concern is the framerate. Some of these TVs, even in the 1080p era, will turn a cinematic masterpiece into feeling like a cheap soap opera. I’m not even sure what to look for to avoid this issue. Limiting myself to maybe 48hz tvs?

Why not just buy a big monitor and use it to watch 'TV'?

Want to know the best option? GO USED. You can find a 50-60 inch dumb TV for a hundred dollars. No, it won't be UHD 4K, but it might be 3D, and it won't pester you to connect to Wi-Fi every time you use it.

I gave up on televisions about 10 years ago, they were all slow as molasses in January, underpowered, with atrocious interfaces. Nothing fluid or positive about any of them. I've got a 30 inch iMac in the bedroom that we watch everything on, much better than a television. I would be interested in purchasing a 52 inch iMac, hang on the wall, has all the media sharing and everything that televisions fail so much at.

I've been on projectors for 10 years. Never even had to own a smart TV.

Spoiler: this is Ars Technica. Obviously they suggest you to instead get an Apple TV so that you send your data to Apple and watch Apple ads instead (with the only argument being that "so far they do less ads").

Sceptre is not in fact "a Wal-Mart brand" but rather an independent company.

https://www.sceptre.com

Westinghouse TVs are made by a company licensing the brand, not a "Pittsburgh-headquartered company".

These seem like easy mistakes to avoid.

For a hacker news article, it misses the crucial option - hacking a smart TV! I have LG OLED jailbroken using rootmy.tv, it was pretty trivial. It's basically a linux computer with a huge screen, you can customize it, SSH into it, map any commands to the remote, etc.

Before I only used monitor, simple DP/HDMI input is all I wanted. But being able to take full control of the tv and connect it with other devices in the house I would normally get Rpi for is pretty convenient!

Hopefully this lawsuit will mean people can modify the software on their smart TVs; replace it with a Linux distro running KDE Bigscreen or similar.

https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html

The is the modern version of "ditch your cable company's horrible DVR for a TiVO". What's old is new again, sadly.

I'm less bothered by the ever present smart tv and more bothered that there is no way to just turn on the tv and go straight to input from a certain port. Would love to know TV's that just do that. My old Samsung constantly forces me to click through sources and out of smart features to get to the hdmi from my computer everytime I turn it on.

For the tech-savvy, I'm not too worried about smart TVs. I just do this:

> If you want premium image quality or sound, you’re better off using a smart TV offline.

In the future, if they add e-sims, we'll just remove them or de-solder or whatever.

The real risk is cars: if they start not working without cell network connections.

I'm confused. Every TV is a dumb TV if you don't give it your Wifi password.

I have the exact setup shown towards the end of the article - HTPC and K400 keyboard/touchpad. I have tried all "smart" platforms in the past, and this setup is an order of magnitude better in everything. I used to have issues where a specific content provider doesn't have an app for my type of smart TV[1], this is no longer an issue because I just use a browser to access anything. And I can browse the web when I'm not watching something[2] (in fact I'm using my HTPC right now as I write this comment).

The only change I had to make starting from a "standard" Linux UI is bumping the screen zoom level to 150%. This may vary depending on your TV size and how far your couch is from your TV.

Building the HTPC was very cheap, I just boughs a horizontal form-factor case, and used spare "donor" parts coming from our household PCs after upgrades.

[1][2]For comparison, the only streaming platform that had all apps I wanted was Apple TV, but that one doesn't have a browser.

Absurdly although I’m, currently paying for a BBC TV licence, I use an Apple TV but they have not, and will not provide UHD content for it on their streaming app.

Either I can do the stupid thing and connect my LG TV to the network, or through various means download the UHD content, and therefore have to manage it, especially the last watched position, or forego it.

Having ADHD, I never really watch to the end, and so rely so much on the saved position to resume.

Unfortunately cars are becoming like smart TVs in this respect.

How I break free from Smart TVs ("smart" for the manufacturer but very dumb for the user).

Buy a cheap smart TV and run it in "store mode".

Brightness and saturation will probably be maxed out but with a cheap TV, it looks more like "normal" on a more expensive model. Hint: The main difference between cheap and expensive in some cases --- the color adjustment range is limited by software on the cheaper models.

Currently using a Hisense 4k model from Costco connected to a small mini PC --- Windows or Linux, your preference. The TV functions as nothing but a dumb display.

Use a small "air mouse" for control. On screen keyboard as needed.

Use a Hauppauge USB tuner for local digital broadcasts.

I use software called DVB Viewer to view local channels and IPTV. A browser with VPN for streaming in some cases.

In every case, I maintain full control of my data and the ability to block ads as I see fit.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that KDE revived the Plasma Bigscreen project. No idea on the ETA but assuming all goes well I can see it becoming my daily driver very quickly.

https://plasma-bigscreen.org/get/

If you already have a "smart TV" of some kind, one strategy is to block it from having Internet access at your router and then use an Android TV based streaming box/stick or other external source for all content (OTA tuner, 4K Blu-Ray player, game console, etc). It's pretty easy to side load apps like Kodi and SmartTube on Android TV (a YouTube client with ad blocking, other features and zillion UX improvements).

Don’t ever connect your TV to the internet?

The cheat code is Sceptre dumb TVs from Wal-Mart's web site. I want Hackernews to know about this so that Sceptre and Wal-Mart can get sales and know that there's a substantial market for these devices, not shrug their shoulders and go "we may as well take these off the market and sell enshittified crap instead; it's not like our customers know or care about the difference."

I have had an old PC hooked up to the hdmi port of an old TV for years and it works exactly as I want. I have full control and don't have to deal with smart tv ads.

Other options than the suggested Apple TV route, include pihole (adblock), kodi, openelec (opensource media players).

I’m fairly certain that Sony TV’s ask you where you want to use it as a Smart TV or a Dumb TV when setting it up.

I wish my apple TV could take a bunch of HDMI inputs and basically be my HDMI switch in the Apple TV interface.

Aren't private DNS or PiHoles a good enough compromise ?

It's a nice starting point. There are other options such as used Flanders Scientific or Sony Studio Screens. But those are usually rather expensive. I would recommend to buy them on Ebay if anything.

Pi-hole

The fact they give you a half decent media PC whilst discounting the monitor in the hope you give them tracking and allow them to be a market gatekeeper; only needs to be mildly anoying in today's world. Just plug in whatever you want and ignore it.

It's always best long term to attach your own smarts to a tv.

That can be as simple as an Apple / Android TV, or more.

says the blog with tens of ads and hundreds of trackers

Just use a commercial signage display

Will it be smart if you don’t connect it to the internet? Am I missing something?

> Westinghouse’s dumb TVs max out at 32 inches and 720p resolution

Then why mention the pitiful shit? That describes a LCD TV I had in 2004, one of the first.

> but some of them also have a built-in DVD player.

Well, that changes everything; I want one now, LOL ...

Dont buy a TV?

> Best ways to find a dumb TV

I did not give my TV network access. Works fine.

tl;dr: don’t connect it to a network, and/or use a computer monitor.

I just ignore all the smart features and never connect my smart TV to the internet, and I disconnected the WiFi antennas from the main board. I use an Apple TV to feed it live TV, series and movies via apps.

I don't really watch TV now. Not scheduled TV anyway. Sometimes some sport in a bar or whatever. I do watch YouTube and some streaming services but old school TV never.

It's interesting to read the praise for Apple TV here. I didn't like mine. My three years old Sony Bravia is really excellent, supports Chrome Cast, Airplay etc, has a great remote control, and a fast enough CPU that the apps don't lag. Everything is butter smooth. It's a thoroughly enjoyable experience.

I had an Apple TV as well, but I don't use it anymore. And I otherwise only use Apple devices. But the Apple TV I just never got warm with.

1. buy any model that meets your specs (i like TCL)

2. setup a one time use wifi network with randomized SSID and password (hotspot from your phone works well)

3. connect your tv to it and update to latest software

4. delete the wifi config and reset that network (roll to new SSID and password)

5. connect an apple tv set top box and never use any of the tv features ever again

Don't connect to the wifi on the tv and just use a Nvidia Shield Pro or ugoos/Onn.

I have a projector, a BenQ X3000i, in my living room, with a retractable screen. It has the plus side of not needing a dedicated wall, but does perform poorly (vs a TV) if the room isn't darkened. Maybe eventually I'll tie it into my home automation with some smart curtains.

It has low latency, will do 1080p 240Hz, 4k (pixel shift) 60Hz and HDR. Can even do 3D content if you really want...

BenQ did include an Android TV stick in the box, but you can just not hook it up to the projector - problem solved.

"We, and our 226 partners use cookies and similar methods to recognize visitors"