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Dumb question: who’s Firefox target user?

Chrome is able to capture the mass consumer market, due to Google’s dark pattern to nag you to install Chrome anytime you’re on a Google property.

Edge target enterprise Fortune 500 user, who is required to use Microsoft/Office 365 at work (and its deep security permission ties to SharePoint).

Safari has Mac/iOS audience via being the default on those platform (and deep platform integration).

Brave (based on Chromium), and LibreWolf (based on Firefox) has even carved out those user who value privacy.

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What’s Firefox target user?

Long ago, Firefox was the better IE, and it had great plugins for web developers. But that was before Chrome existed and Google capturing the mass market. And the developers needed to follow its users.

So what target user is left for a Firefox?

Note: not trolling. I loved Firefox. I just don’t genuine understand who it’s for anymore.

Everyone is reacting negatively to the focus on AI, but does Mozilla really have a choice? This is going to be a rehash of the same dynamic that has happened in all the browser wars: Leading browser introduces new feature, websites and extensions start using that feature, runner-up browsers have no choice but to introduce that feature or further lose marketshare.

Chrome and Edge have already integrated LLM capabilities natively, and webpages and extensions will soon start using them widely:

- https://developer.chrome.com/docs/ai/built-in

- https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2025/05/19/introducing-t...

Soon you will have pages that are "Best viewed in Chrome / Edge" and eventually these APIs will be standardized. Only a small but passionate minority of users will run a non-AI browser. I don't think that's the niche Firefox wants to be in.

I agree that Mozilla should take the charge on being THE privacy-focused browser, but they can also do so in the AI age. As an example, provide a sandbox and security features that prevent your prompts and any conversations with the AI from being exfiltrated for "analytics." Because you know that is coming.

It looks like they chose a Product Manager and MBA. Why can't we get a software engineer or computer scientist?

Looking at his LinkedIn profile, he seems to be the MBA type, with little to no technical experience. For the past year he's been the SVP or GM of Firefox, whatever that means. Take that as you will...

> Aspiration: doing for AI what we did for the web.

> Strength: $1.3B in reserves + diverse operating models (product, deep tech, venture, philanthropy) make Mozilla unusually free to bet long-term.

> Strategy: Pillar 1: AI. Pillar 2: AI. Pillar 3: AI.

Oh yes.

It continues to amaze me how a company racking in over 500 million a year in revenue can continue to fail so spectacularly. With that income there's no reason they shouldn't be the leading browser. Doubling down on AI is only going to burn more money while they continue to lose market share.

Well Ladybird [0] it is

[0]: https://ladybird.org/

> People want software that is fast, modern, but also honest about what it does.

I want my browser to be able to run uBlock Origin, so therefore people want more than just what is specified above. I did quit using Google Chrome because they banned uBO (I know the command-line-flags hack still works, but for how long?).

If Firefox also bans uBO through removal of Manifest v2 without offering a proper alternative, then it's just as big of a piece of crap as Chrome is. Due to lack of real choices, I could as well move back to Chrome. I'm currently using Vivaldi.

> It will evolve into a modern AI browser

Next time I run into Richard Stallman I should ask him for tips on browsing the web

Does anyone else feel like the "Trust" angle is the only card they have left to play? Technically, Chrome is faster on JS benchmarks. Edge has better OS integration on Windows and comes by default. Safari wins on battery life on Mac. Firefox's only unique selling point is "We aren't a massive data vampire." If they clutter the browser with AI which inherently requires data processing, often in the cloud, they dilute their only true differentiator.

Having worked at Mozilla a while ago, the CEO role is one I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Success is oddly defined: it's a non-profit (well, a for-profit owned by a non-profit) that needs to make a big profit in a short amount of time. And anything done to make that profit will annoy the community.

I hope Anthony leans into what makes Mozilla special. The past few years, Mozilla's business model has been to just meekly "us-too!" trends... IoT, Firefox OS, and more recently AI.

What Mozilla is good at, though, is taking complex things the average user doesn't really understand, and making it palpable and safe. They did this with web standards... nobody cared about web standards, but Mozilla focused on usability.

(Slide aside, it's not a coincidence the best CEO Mozilla ever had was a designer.)

I'm not an AI hater, but I don't think Mozilla can compete here. There's just too much good stuff already, and it's not the type of thing Mozilla will shine with.

Instead, if I were CEO, I'd go the opposite way: I'd focus on privacy. Not AI privacy, but privacy in general. Buy a really great email provider, and start to own "identity on the internet". As there's more bots and less privacy, identity is going to be incredibly important over the years.. and right now, Google defacto owns identity. Make it free, but also give people a way to pay.

Would this work? I don't know. But like I said, it's not a job I envy.

I love Mozilla but this feels like marketing imo.

From the article: "AI should always be a choice — something people can easily turn off" and "Firefox will remain our anchor. It will evolve into a modern AI browser". I highly doubt you will be able to turn of the transformer tech features in an AI browser imo. And they won't make a separate browser for this.

This really feels like the beginning of the end for Mozilla, sadly.

Are there any true alternatives (not dependent on financing or any engines from third parties) to Google, if you wish to use the web in 2025?

If I were the CEO, I would:

- focus 100% on Firefox Desktop & Mobile - just a fast solid minimalist browser (no AI, no BS) - other features should be addons - privacy centric - builtin, first-class, adblocker - run on donations - partner with Kagi - layoff 80% of the non-tech employees

I worked for them for many years, I guarantee you that Mozilla will be fine without all the non-sense people, just put engineers in charge.

> Firefox will grow from a browser into a broader ecosystem of trusted software. Firefox will remain our anchor. It will evolve into a modern AI browser and support a portfolio of new and trusted software additions.

Please don't.

> people agency in how it works. Privacy, data use, and AI must be clear and understandable. Controls must be simple. AI should always be a choice — something people can easily turn off. People should know why a feature works the way it does and what value they get from it.

> Second: our business model must align with trust. We will grow through transparent monetization that people recognize and value.

> Third: Firefox will grow from a browser into a broader ecosystem of trusted software. Firefox will remain our anchor. It will evolve into a modern AI browser and support a portfolio of new and trusted software additions.

I like what the interim CEO was doing, focusing more on the browser and forgetting these side projects that leads to nowhere, but it seems it's back to business with this one.

"Mozilla's former CEO, Mitchell Baker, earned nearly $7 million in 2022, with compensation rising from around $3 million in 2020 to over $5.5 million in 2021 and $6.9 million in 2022"

I wonder how much the new CEO is making now.

> Firefox will remain our anchor. It will evolve into a modern AI browser

Aligning yourself with garbage generators is how you lose trust. Meanwhile, the top user requested features still point to basic deficiencies of browser UI

If AI feature are on by default then no thanks!

This is how to burn what little trust remains: "AI should always be a choice — something people can easily turn off."

It has to be opt-in or you're not worthy of trust.

The only answer is for them to go back to "plan A" and do their own things. Stop copying Chrome. Stop looking at Safari and Edge. Stop the rapid release nonsense. Go back to the fundamentals of speed, security, and stability on desktops and leave the rest to plugins. Once desktop is back on track, they should begin fixing mobile. When both are great, do nothing else except bugfix and performance fixes. We want this and nothing more.

Rather than develop its own AI (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45926779), Firefox should develop a system to pipe your html rendered browsing history in real time so external local services can process it (https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/archive-your-browser-hi...). See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45743918

Firefox probably won't suddenly have the best AI, but it could be the only browser that does this. Previous: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46018789

I swear I've heard this trust angle used by so many CEOs throughout the years. When I hear this I know nothing good is on the way.

IMO Zen Browser fixed a lot of the Firefox UI painpoints while keeping what I like about it. It would be a smart move to make the Zen UI the canonical version of Firefox. Especially since features like vertical tabs, folders, pins, split screen, and new tab previews are more in the power user use case and Chrome has entirely dominated the casual user demographic.

Copying portion of the comment I said under another comment:

I and many stuck with Firefox despite being it being horrible until quantum release because Mozilla was aligned with community. But their tech is better now but they aren't aligned with community.

It was the community that made Firefox overtake IE. They seem to forget that.

Unless its gonna come pre-installed like chrome, they need community make the user base grow. They are absolutely dumb for going after a crowd who are happy with Chrome while shitting on the crowd which want to be with them.

i feel like there ought to be a meaningfully large market for a "trusted" company where part of the brand identity is being able to form sentences that do not include the token "ai", especially with e.g. microsoft's recent excesses in this direction, but what do i know about the alleged realities of running a tech company in $YEAR

I was on board with this until he said, Firefox would become a “modern AI browser.” I am not sure what that looks like or means, and I am not sure anyone really does. It feels like some kind of obligatory statement to appease someone somewhere.

Got my first change in Firefox today that says "Nightly uses AI to read your Open Tabs". Says its local but I really have zero trust for telemetry on this kind of stuff.

If the next update fails to remove ads on by default we can assume these are empty promises.

https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-disable-sponsored-suggestions...

Mozilla needs to get back to just being a browser project with foundation-based corporate governance.

I don't get why everything has to include the latest trend. Do what the Linux kernel project does: be a bazaar. If someone wants to create deeper AI integration into Firefox, they'll pick up that task, put it in a branch, and the community will discuss whether it merits inclusion in the main. If it does, it'll be there; if not, it won't be.

Operate on donations of time and money with a clear goal of what the project should be.

Mozilla has been in a dire place for years. Notably someone years ago posted a chart showing how exec salary keeps going up while marketshare keeps going down [1].

In the Microsoft antitrust trial in the 1990s, the court established that having a browser monopoly was anticompetitive. Sadly, we've allowed this situation to repeat on mobile so Chrome and Safari now dominate. Windows has a lot of default Edge installs (and set as the default browser, particularly in corporate settings) but it's really just a Webkit skin at this point.

Now iOS does technically allow third-party browsers but they're just Safari skins and they're not as good (eg at different times they have more limited features like not havintg the latest Javascript engine).

I really think we need to end the bundled exclusive apps on mobile for certain things.

Until then I'm really not sure what Mozilla's path forward is. They've tried to pivot on things like privacy but I don't think any of these make sense or at least won't produce a revenue source to justify the investment. How do you fund something like Mozilla? And how do you create value for users?

[1]: https://itdm.com/mozilla-firefox-usage-down-85-but-why-are-e...

What browser should I use then? I quit chrome in a futile attempt to be tracked less. They killed support for my adblocker.

At least he seems focused on Firefox.

Hopefully this translates into clearer direction for Firefox and better execution across the company, instead of pushing multiple micro products that are likely destined to fail, as Mozilla has done over the past 5+ years.

From his LinkedIn profile [1], his recent roles have been consistently centered on Firefox:

Chief Executive Officer

Dec 2025 - Present · 1 mo

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General Manager of Firefox

Jul 2025 - Dec 2025 · 6 mos

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SVP of Firefox

Dec 2024 - Jul 2025 · 8 mos

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He appears to have a solid background in product thinking, feature development, and UX. If his main focus remains on Firefox, that could be a positive sign for the product and its long term direction.

[1] https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthonyed/

You want "Trust"?

Cut executive pay 75% back to what Brendan was getting paid, and invest that money in the company instead of lining your own pockets.

Ditch the AI crap that nobody wants or needs and focus on making a good browser and email application, and advertising them to increase user count.

Anything less than this is not trustworthy, it's just another lecherous MBA who is hastening the death of Mozilla.

My wish list: - A secure email (with optional encryption/signature, with whitelists) - IM (with point to point encryption). - identity management (I would love delegating the login/password ceremonial to Mozilla instead of reinventing the well for each site). It seems I have trust in Mozilla.

> As Mozilla moves forward, we will focus on becoming the trusted software company.

Does this sentence feel incomplete to anyone else? Is it supposed to say "the most trusted software company" or is it supposed to be an emphasis (i.e. the trusted software company)?

Why does firefox need a CEO? Is the Linux model not feasible?

I don't trust Mozilla. I don't trust them with my donation money. I don't trust their software any more than other browser vendors.

"Third: Firefox will grow from a browser into a broader ecosystem of trusted software. Firefox will remain our anchor. It will evolve into a modern AI browser and support a portfolio of new and trusted software additions."

Yeah, no. Just make a browser that doesn't suck. Mozilla has been wasting a ton of money, lost almost all of their market share, and have been focusing on making new products nobody wants for a VERY long time and this looks to continue.

> AI should always be a choice — something people can easily turn off

and a couple of lines below

> It will evolve into a modern AI browser

Besides the obvious "what the fuck is an AI browser?" aren't the two mutually exclusive?

"It will evolve into a modern AI browser and support a portfolio of new and trusted software additions." I stopped reading there. I just want a browser. Nothing else

Bring back Mozilla OS - Android based! Privacy focused.

Well good luck with those 3%, assuming that incrementing market share is actually the main goal for the new CEO.

Can't imagine a worse angle for regaining trust than doubling down on AI slop.

I think the fundamental problem with Firefox and Mozilla is, that people want an organization to maximize Firefox, but Mozilla is an organization maximizing something else while preserving Firefox.

The fundamental problem is expectation and reality mismatch, and is being 'solved' from two directions: new ideal browsers, or criticism of Mozilla in the hope that it improves.

I know quite a few non-tech firefox users. None of them want the AI integration. I am wary of confirmation bias, but I feel this is one of those simpsons headmaster meme moments: Am I wrong? No, I am right! the users are wrong! the users want me to spend millions developing AI for firefox instead of all the other things.

One of the secondary awful things about AI is that I have to hear news sources I like listening to complain about it constantly.

This AI hype is frustrating, but it's also frustrating that it dominates conversations with valid points that are identical to the last five times it was talked about.

DEI and ESG don't work anymore, now people are latching onto AI wherever they can

they're all just marketing scams. if these people actually implement AI in ways that isn't needed it just kills the product

the built-in language translation feature of firefox is great, because it's locally ran

i don't want my browser fetching commands from random servers just to implement AI in a browser that was working fine without it

What would be nice is something like the Python foundation, people can be a reasonable membership to become "members" of the organisation with a right proposal and vote for decisions.

Oh, let's see who's going to be the leader of the organization that's going to save privacy on the internet. Bet he has a track record of valuing free information and user privacy.

Wait, just like the last CEO, the only way to find out anything about him is a LinkedIn page. I'd have to create an account, log in, and consent to letting them collect and do anything they want with my information.

Apparently Mozilla doesn't have the technical capability of displaying an html web page that doesn't require a login and surrendering to data collection in order to view. Now try to find information about Satya Nadella without giving up your privacy.

Fire fix usage went from I forget what but really significant down to the level people don't build site for it anymore.

Pretty sure it's because they made security changes that broke the Intranet.

What you want una browser is that it t works. Not some security pop-up telling it doesn't work. Especially if you wrote the website.

Still annoying evert time https://127.0.0.1 is flagged as insecure

I have a laptop with 4 GB of ram and firefox keeps crashing. I wish they'd fix this instead of saddling me with AI features I don't need.

Verge interview with some comments about AI:

https://www.theverge.com/tech/845216/mozilla-ceo-anthony-enz... (https://archive.ph/li0ig)

"Trust" and "AI" are mutually exclusive. Not really impressed with this guy. My guess is the board vetted this guy to be more politically correct than anything else.

Mozilla should restructure its governance such that leadership is elected by their employees - preferably their software developers.

i wouldn't touch anything from Mozilla with a twenty-foot pole

Well it surely cannot get any wor-

> ...investing in AI...

Ugh, nevermind.

I think this is a great insight and great leadership.

While the for-profit world, and many others, have embraced extremes of predatory capitalism, contempt for users, and disinformation, Mozilla has a fantastic opportunity to compete on its unique capabilities:

It's not under pressure to adapt that business culture - no private equity, Wall Street, etc. pushing it; its culture is antithetical to those things; and its culture has always been geared toward service to the community and trust.

The insight and leadership is to find this word, which hasn't been used much (I think many in business or politics would laugh at it), is incredibly powerful and a fundamental social need, and is clear guidance for everyone and every activity at Mozilla and for customers.

Imagine using a company's products and not having to think about them trying to cheat you.

> AI should always be a choice — something people can easily turn off.

Welp. Starting off on the wrong foot. "AI should always be a choice - something people can easily opt in to".

Can't teach what there's profit in not learning, etc. Oh well.

I hope like hell Mozilla leadership can just go back to focusing on what is actually important: making a free, fast, secure, private web browser.

I for one, am grateful to Mozilla for still being around, pushing for an open web.

Their documentation is excellent, the improvements and roadmap for Thunderbird made me finally adopt it, and I appreciate their privacy-friendlier translation services. uBO works great in Firefox, and I can't stand using a browser without its full features.

About MBA types: the free software project I work for has an MBA type, which I initially resented as being an outsider. However, they manage the finances, think about team and project growth long-term (with heavy financial consequences), and ignore the daily technical debates (which are left to the lead devs), and listen to users, big and small. Some loud users like to complain that we don't listen to them, and sometimes we kick them out, because we do listen to users.

I don't know much about Mozilla internals, if I am to judge from the results: Mozilla is still here, despite everyone saying for 10+ years that they are going to die. They are still competitive. They are still holding big tech accountable, despite having a fraction of their power. I can imagine that they make a lot of people here very uncomfortable.

"The World’s Most Trusted Software Company"

I'm sure the new leader of the trojan horse (fox?) is not going to pivot to AI...

"...Third: Firefox will grow from a browser into a broader ecosystem of trusted software. Firefox will remain our anchor. It will evolve into a modern AI browser and support a portfolio of new and trusted software additions..."

"It will evolve into a modern AI browser"

and there it is, the most "trusted" software company pivoting to AI.

Mozilla for the love of God I do not want “AI features” in the tool I use to do my online banking. Stop this madness.

Nobody is switching away from Firefox because it’s not agentic.

But there might be a small amount of people willing to switch away from Chromium slop browsers BECAUSE IT ISNT.

Why do you think Waterfox and Librewolf leave this crap out?

Lost me right about in the middle when he started chirping AI AI AI like a parrot. AI and trust do not go hand in hand. Focus on privacy, transparency and simplicity because instead. Good luck.

What does Mozilla do these days?

The only thing that gives some slight semblance of hope is that he at least acknowledges that Mozilla is vulnerable and he very very briefly mentions needing new sources of revenue.

No mention of an endowment (like Wikipedia has) or concrete plans to spend money efficiently or in a worthwhile way, and I sure hope ‘invest in AI’ doesn’t mean ‘piss away 9 figures that could have set up an endowment to give Mozilla some actual resilience’.

I hope is that he’s at least paranoid enough about Mozilla’s revenue sources to do anything about their current position that gives them resiliency. Mozilla has for well over a decade now been in a pathetic state where if Google turns off the taps it is quite simply over. He talks a lot about peoples’ trust in Mozilla. I don’t really remember what he’s talking about to be honest, but if Mozilla get to a point where they seem like they can exist without them simply being Google’s monopoly defence insurance, perhaps I’ll remember the feeling of trusting Mozilla. I miss it.

Firefox exists as long as uBlock exists. It’s a niche product and the only (thin) argument about using it is “don’t let Google become a monopoly" (the very same company that keeps Mozilla alive). Its terrible management decisions, its questionable telemetry and at the end of the day, its performance are the reasons why it will never catch up and it will never get new users.

Good for them.

Currently they spend millions of dollars (that mostly come from people wanting to support their browser) on huge salaries and projects that have nothing to do with their browser. At the same time they keep on taking steps to alienate those that are donating or using their products.

The bar for success is pretty low - stop wasting all them bucks, and stop alienating your users.

If you could do that, there is plenty of next steps.

Good luck

> AI should always be a choice — something people can easily turn off.

One sentence later:

> It will evolve into a modern AI browser

One more sentence later:

> In the next three years, that means investing in AI that reflects the Mozilla Manifesto

I mean if you wanted to concretely see how much ignoring their users is in their DNA.

What a daring approach. Truly worth the millions he's gonna earn.

Now they put a LinkedIn cowboy in charge. Great.

"Firefox will remain our anchor. It will evolve into a modern AI browser and support a portfolio of new and trusted software additions."

reading this genuinely disgusts me. I am so tired of this nonsense being shoved where it doesn't belong. I just want a fast browser that stays out of the way.

From my perspective, Firefox, a while back, just stopped working on issues that matter. They got into politics, they tried to do everything, but not as good.

If they just focused to produce a good browser, they would be way ahead. And time when you could get $100Ms from Google are slowly coming to an end. Money attracts grifters and this is what brought them down from my perspective.

Now, just to be honest, I wish they find a way. We always could use alternatives. Just don't expect this alternative to come from Mozilla.

> As Mozilla moves forward, we will focus on becoming the trusted software company.

That's what I'd do.

The question is whether they really mean it.

Mozilla will have to recover from some history of disingenuous and incompetent leadership.

What I want to see instead of all this AI nonsense is replacing Gecko with Servo and implementing Vulkan rendering.

Mozilla went to shit after Brendan Eich was ousted.

Now Mozilla only needs to find a CEO that understands tech.

What product or market mozilla still relevant? Of all the sites I manage, or companies I worked with in the last 5 years mozilla browsers were less than 1% of the userbase.

Money calls