HN Reader

> What happens if I cancel my subscription?

> You can cancel at any time. Without an active subscription, certain core services and privacy features will be limited. To keep your MC03 fully functional, secure, and up to date, an active subscription is required.

Out of curiosity (I'm definitely NOT going to buy a Phone-as-a-Service), what exactly happens when you cancel your subscription? Does the smartphone brick itself? Does it let you flash a sane operating system that doesn't treat you as a cash cow?

Here's what GrapheneOS said about AphyOS: https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/1893469596973220188

> They have a fork of an old version of GrapheneOS merged with LineageOS. They heavily marketed it as being based on GrapheneOS, but it's a very outdated version. Their devices don't have remotely comparable privacy, security, usability or app compatibility to official GrapheneOS.

"www.punkt.ch wants to send you notifications"

Why do websites still do this? It's an immediate red flag that the underlying company have no respect for their customers.

The product page (https://www.punkt.ch/products/mc03-premium-secure-smartphone, click on "all tech specs") mentions a "SAR sensor". I have not seen that before, does anyone know what this does? Does the device try to estimate how much EM your body received while carrying it around or calling, or what is this for?

€700 for a locked down phone, excluding €10 / month subscription of a locked down OS. No thanks

I really loved the previous design with the physical numpad and it seems they've opened up the platform to support more applications beyond a few blessed ones (like Signal in the past).

Really put off by this though:

> If you don’t pay for a product, you are the product. With MC03, you pay to retain your data rather than paying with it.

So you have to pay >$100/year to maintain access to your device? Why do I need to pay to retain data that is on my own device?

The problem in Europe is that Whatsapp has become the standard for mobile messaging, and it's only available on Android and iOS

This really nerfs the whole dumbphone movement for Europeans, which should be a key market.

I went on holiday with someone a few weeks ago who is toughing it out with a no-Whatsapp dumbphone. He missed the train home because he got locked out of the holiday cottage and couldn't get in touch with anyone.

> Like its forerunner, the MC02, the new model is a subscription-based smartphone

stopped reading there

Huge disappointment that it's just a glass rectangle with a modified OS.

What made previous Punkt models cool is that they were "dumb+" phones. They did what you needed them to, and nothing else. In exchange, you got a device that fit easily in your pocket.

Now that it's a big touch screen, you've got apps, complexity, and ultimately no differentiator from any other smartphone.

Seems like this AphyOS is de-googled android, not sure if they use MicroG but apart from FAQ there's no mention of 'Android'.

Being android the trade off between convinience and privacy might be lesser than a purpose built Linux Phone like Librem. Their marketing copy suggests it's not for the same audience as say Librem or Graphene OS phone.

Ofcourse many of their advertised privacy features can be achieved for cheap with any LineageOS/postmarket OS phone with self-hosted Nextcloud.

I own a MP01 that replaced a Nokia 105 that got lost in the Berghain after 12 years of service. I regret buying the Punkt. It costs more than double than the Nokia and is worse in almost every dimension. It is all form over function, with various obvious UX issues. I would not buy from this company again.

AphyOS? OK checking "Free & Open Source Software" cool... but no link to repositories on their Webpage, not a great sign. Found https://github.com/orgs/AphyOS/repositories but 2024 so clearly not the main repos, found https://gerrit.aphy.ag/admin/repos via https://aphy.guide/docs/developers/platform/source-code-mana...

So... FLOSS doesn't mean external contributions but did anybody review this, like security audit, submitting issues, anything? It's the first time I hear about it.

>punkt.ch wants to send you notifications

pretty bad signal

Not even close to security provided by GrapheneOS, ships Android 15 and the phone looks quite ugly with that big branding on it. I'll stick with GrapheneOS and Pixels.

For years I've been so close to ordering one of their previous generation phones, and now I feel like I've dodged a bullet by not buying from this company. This new phone is a huge step in the wrong direction.

Can someone please release a nice Sidekick like device with physical keyboard that supports Signal.

I immediately distrust anything privacy based that is marketed by the Swiss.

I love the aesthetics of the objectives/flash looking like an induction cooktop!

If trying to hawk a subscription-based closed-source fork of open source software as privacy preserving or being "Swiss-made" weren't sufficient red flags, search the web for MP02, their last phone. Basic functionality like calling and texting often don't work, and their Signal client never work, they are selling a dream. Punkt is basically a scam

I'm really struggling to see who this phone is aimed for. Why would someone pay a subscription for their "own" phone that is cut off from the major app stores?

Love the concept, hate the idea of a €120/year subscription for the OS alone.

It’s also slightly upsetting that both Punkt and Apostrophy’s websites refuse to mention “AphyOS” is an Android-based OS, which is 100% relevant for a purchase decision.

I got interested and checked their website, but it gave me a bad vibe, not to mention the hefty price tag in addition to the subscription.

"Website `https://www.punkt.ch` would like to show notifications."

Why? What is so important that they need me to notify about?

If they're going to provide updates or privacy as a subscription, it would be much more interesting to offer the device for free, with just the $/€/CHF 10 fee per month.

Stop the subscription and you have to return the device. The fee includes some margin for insurance and refurbishing. Then it's clearly "renting a phone" and the cost is similar to buying an expensive phone and using it for a couple of years.

> Like its forerunner, the MC02, the new model is a subscription-based smartphone

Non-starter.

Has Graphene announced their 'major Android OEM to bring the OS to Snapdragon-powered flagships' [that is NOT fairphone] yet?

I hope the Swiss broke with their traditions and its not a front for the CIA this time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG

Why this instead of a Pixel 8 or newer running GrapheneOS and no requirement for subscriptions?

I find it amusing to see the Facebook, XTwitter, and Pinterest social buttons at the bottom of the article.

This is a very interesting thread to read... I can't help but remember the wishes expressed in other news threads such as 'I wish I could just pay for things to not have tracking built in' / 'This vital software component is so underfunded, no wonder this happens'

Now a company offers it and every 2nd comment has the vibe of 'Why would someone pay a subscription for their "own" phone'. I guess that means the former vibe is not something most people actually want?

€699 + €9.99/month for a smartphone that supposed to be a dumb phone, with a custom locked down OS. Punkt is losing the point what made their previous products successful.

I have my iphone 13 mini for 4 years, having a Punkt MC03 for the same amount of time would cost me €1058. Thanks, but no thanks.

can someone explain how a subscription-based product is a great option for privacy?

or how being locked in to a black box vpn instills a sense of having gained reliable true privacy?

Well they really destroyed everything that I knew was Punkt: Great design, minimalist, e-ink like displays with an android cheap design, no e-ink, and Phone as a Service? are you kidding us?

I thought this was an eInk screen- all of the screenshots show a grainy black-and-white UI. I had to dig around to learn that it actually has a full-color OLED apparently.

> Like its forerunner, the MC02, the new model is a subscription-based smartphone

Nope Nope Nope nope Nope Nope Nope

Had me at “control your data”, lost me at “monthly subscription”.

Damn, so close.

I bought and tried to use the MP02 as a daily driver. Quite different from where Punkt is heading now. The industrial design is gorgeous, but the software was pretty bad (laggy, unintuitive navigation - Android on such a low powered chip was a bad choice). I can guess why, but it baffles me they didn't jump on the growing demand for dumbphones. If they had just released an MP03 with identical form factor but improved battery life, latency and screen improvements, I would have bought one in a heartbeat.

> If you don’t pay for a product, you are the product. With MC03, you pay to retain your data rather than paying with it.

Ah yes, more dystopian "You'll own nothing, and rent everything, including your own data" products. That's a hard no, do not pass go from me.

Technology has been enshittified enough, stop being part of the problem, and certainly don't try to pretend you're doing me a favor or protecting my privacy by holding my devices and/or data captive unless I pay an indefinite renters fee.

If they aren't selling the data, then why the hell do they want it? Want to protect my privacy? Sell me the damn device, let me do as I please with it, and let that be the end of the transaction. Keep your damn telemetry, backdoors, dark patterns, bloatware and subscription bullshit off it.

If you don't have root access, you don't have full control.

Dupe:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46466171

go to website, "allow punkt to send you notifications", closed website.

based on how they welcome new customers to their site, I can only assume this is the general vibe of the company also. (aggressively pushing crap)